Factory battery ongoing issues

[Jersey Jim]

...... And this is coasting and falling below 15 mph with 0% TPS, and stopped at stop sign. Draws current FROM battery! Stupid algorithm. This occurs at 70, 80%, any SOC. most often additional loads will keep this from going negative. Notice "Fast Regen". Avoid this mode with headlights and or fan blower. Keeps in Slow Regen. Once vehicle first starts at beginning of commute, charge mode usually is in "Conventional mode" initially.
"Generator Voltage Desired" (GENVDSD) is commanded Lower than battery voltage, causing the battery to supply the vehicle at traffic lights, sometimes idling, until battery gets pulled down to the lower alternator voltage (Less delta between battery V and Alt V). Sometimes is briefly 30-40 amp draw.

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[Jersey Jim]

....... This new battery works better than the original ever did. I just hope Ford's stupid charging algorithm doesn't damage it over time. You can't see the "Cumulative Discharge" parameter because you have to scroll the phone, but these are in Killowatts, and takes a commute or so to increase even 100 watts (0.1). When resetting the BMS this weekend, 30 kW charge, and 24 kW Discharge had accumulated (I reset it about 14 months ago). So even with a less than optimal charging algorithm, more went into the battery than came out. I believe it shouldn't be that close to breaking even, which leads to not holding up to parasitic loads for as many days as it could. In my opinion, the only discharge should be the necessary parasitic loads, initial dome lights, etc., and starter cranking. Not hefty loads at every stop light! At least put a huge diode inline (check valve) to prevent back flowing, or program the damn alternator to NEVER fall below the battery's voltage. Time will tell. I've got a plan anyway to circumvent these charging shortcomings. But before that, I will turn OTA updates back on after this past year of being disabled. I hear they've addressed some charging issues.
BTW, this is on a 2.7L eco ICE F150. Nothing fancy.

 

[Jersey Jim]

New battery accepted an additional 3% and should have read 103%, but that forscan variable cuts off at 100%. At the idling at 2 amps for just over an hour flowed an additional 3% that the battery accepted. I still have the module thinking I have a 70 Ah H6 battery, which is 1% for every 0.7 Ah. I just gave it an additional 3%, but as you see, displays 100% max. The battery should hold 12 Ah over the 100%. At least the larger battery is still accepting charge. Will go in and change battery size to H7 soon.

 

[HammaMan]

New battery accepted an additional 3% and should have read 103%, but that forscan variable cuts off at 100%. At the idling at 2 amps for just over an hour flowed an additional 3% that the battery accepted. I still have the module thinking I have a 70 Ah H6 battery, which is 1% for every 0.7 Ah. I just gave it an additional 3%, but as you see, displays 100% max. The battery should hold 12 Ah over the 100%. At least the larger battery is still accepting charge. Will go in and change battery size to H7 soon.

You are likely to enter the low power mode where modules sleep sooner if the truck doesn't know the size of the battery. If you find you're getting the low power mode, consider swapping your config to reflect actual battery capacity.

 

[Snakebitten]

I haven't posted anything (yet) about what APPEARS to be a much altered LV charging strategy on my 2022 Powerboost.
That's "Much" with a capital M.

I monitor these things fairly granular and the values I'm seeing are a substantial deviation to what I have seen for the last couple of years. But I'm surprised nobody else is saying anything about it.

I assume that it's a result of recent updates. It's the only explanation I have. If I had to describe it in summary, the truck is now very aggressive about raising the SOC (Ford's SOC PID) to the ~95%, if the battery was measured lower than that on startup.

So has nobody else noticed their DC/DC converter pumping out 20-30 amps of charging current, at ~13.9V, even if the SOC started at say.... 83, or 85, or even 87% SOC?

And note that I am NOT talking about a fan speed assist. I'm at 68F speed 1

What I don't know is if new code has somehow given legitimate influence to the Forscan edit that was all the rage when it was first discussed. I say that because I did adjust mine to 95 way back when, but quickly discovered, like everyone else, that procedure didn't have the expected influence we hoped for.

So is it a coincidence that it appears 95% SOC is what my truck is targeting before it "backs off" on charging?

I should go change that Asbuilt to another value and find out for myself.

 

[scott011422]

I haven't posted anything (yet) about what APPEARS to be a much altered LV charging strategy on my 2022 Powerboost.
That's "Much" with a capital M.

I monitor these things fairly granular and the values I'm seeing are a substantial deviation to what I have seen for the last couple of years. But I'm surprised nobody else is saying anything about it.

I assume that it's a result of recent updates. It's the only explanation I have. If I had to describe it in summary, the truck is now very aggressive about raising the SOC (Ford's SOC PID) to the ~95%, if the battery was measured lower than that on startup.

So has nobody else noticed their DC/DC converter pumping out 20-30 amps of charging current, at ~13.9V, even if the SOC started at say.... 83, or 85, or even 87% SOC?

And note that I am NOT talking about a fan speed assist. I'm at 68F speed 1

What I don't know is if new code has somehow given legitimate influence to the Forscan edit that was all the rage when it was first discussed. I say that because I did adjust mine to 95 way back when, but quickly discovered, like everyone else, that procedure didn't have the expected influence we hoped for.

So is it a coincidence that it appears 95% SOC is what my truck is targeting before it "backs off" on charging?

I should go change that Asbuilt to another value and find out for myself.

I have not noticed anything as of yet. I'm still averaging 12.35. Its starting to warm up, So my charge levels are rising higher during a charge cycle. 12.5, even seen a 12.6 earlier in the month.

 

[Big Dog Daddy]

@Snakebitten are you seeing these numbers with O.E. H7 still in your truck? Or have you changed it out at this point? I've also noticed consistently higher maintained SOC average level than I once did, since the last PCM and BCM updates with my 5.0 ICE

 

[Snakebitten]

I have not noticed anything as of yet. I'm still averaging 12.35. Its starting to warm up, So my charge levels are rising higher during a charge cycle. 12.5, even seen a 12.6 earlier in the month.

Note that I was not quoting static/resting voltages. I was only mentioning Ford's SOC value which requires the truck to be "on", which in a Powerboost automatically enables the DC/DC converter (alternator), thus the voltage displayed is voltage being supplied.

@Snakebitten are you seeing these numbers with O.E. H7 still in your truck? Or have you changed it out at this point? I've also noticed consistently higher maintained SOC average level than I once did, since the last PCM and BCM updates with my 5.0 ICE

My battery is 751 days old. (Still OEM)
Which I assume was the day that Dearborn woke the truck up the first time with the H7 AGM they bolted in?

This battery is, in my opinion, wounded. It bleeds down when the truck is parked much faster and deeper than what a brand new battery would. However, the "new" (to me) charging strategy is amazingly aggressive, by comparison. So perhaps the truck will squeeze some additional life out of it WITHOUT me providing external assistance? At least less assistance?

I have hundreds of screenshots of the PIDs regarding the low voltage side of the truck. But I specifically took a new screenshot every 2 miles on the way home from the office today. I added a few supporting comments:

At startup:
Low voltage values are the 4 PIDs in the white box.
1. Alternator (DC/DC converter supplied current-amps)
2. AMPs +- (+ is amps into the 12V AGM
3. Ford's SOC value for the battery
4. Voltage (Alternator-DC/DC converter)
Also display the # days battery in service

Comment:
In 2 years of monitoring, I have never seen the alternator supply 40 amps to the AGM. Certainly not at a SOC of 78%.
In fact, the "target" always felt like ~80% SOC was a happy place and as it approached 80%, the amps supplied would be barely more than a trickle charger. And the voltage would drop into the high 12x/low 13x

14.1 @ 40 amps was unheard of!


2 miles down the road:

2 miles and the SOC has increased from 78>82
Amazing what some charging current/amps can achieve!

4 miles:

Seems strange to say "only" 20Amps now, but that's still far more than what was normal for 2 years. Especially considering the SOC is now 84%.
84% SOC would have had voltage at 12.7 and charging current/amps at 1,2, or maaaaybe 3?
It always felt like the BMS was reluctant to increase the SOC once the truck was near 85%. Only a continuous long drive would coax the trickle charging strategy to raise the SOC.

Jump forward to 12 miles
Still just a mild tapering of charging current. And the voltage hasn't backed off either. This charging strategy would likely have negated much of the low voltage gnashing of teeth for Powerboost owners. What happened to get Ford to finally charge the battery?

16 miles of typical commute with average traffic and the SOC has increased from 78 to 90.
And still no backing off!

At 16 miles I stopped to grab a couple of grandkids. A little more than an hour parked.

As mentioned, this is a tired AGM.
It dropped 5% SOC over that hour.
When I start the truck back up and head for the house with precious cargo on board, the truck obviously thinks 85% SOC is below the target. ?

46 AMPs at 13.8V
That's simply stunning compared to the original conservative strategy.

6 Miles later parked in the barn

90% SOC and still beyond trickle charging rate.


I'll finish by pointing out that I have already tested what happens if I fully charge the battery externally.
Last Monday I set off on a Galveston to Jacksonville Florida trip. The SOC was 100% when I backed out of the barn.

The truck refused to supply any charging current/amps from the DC/DC converter, and even taxed the AGM for -amps at 12.7V

The SOC slowly decreased to 95%.
At 95%, the DC/DC converter immediately started providing charging current/amps at a trickle rate. (+0,1,2 amps)
I drove non-stop to Tallahassee the first day. 700+ miles.
The SOC stayed at 94-95% continuously.

So again, is it a coincidence?
Is what became obvious as the intended/desired SOC by the BMS, 95% specifically, a reflection of the Forscan value I entered 2 years ago?

Sure does seem like the software updates has altered the target from a soft ~80% to an absolute 95%.

 

[Gros Ventre]

A newly wetted down battery will show you a "full charge." I still submit that a wetting down charge will help a battery have a long life. When I bought an off the shelf catalog battery for my truck over Thanksgiving 2 1/2 years ago, it showed a full charge on installation. After returning home a few days later, I gave it a wetting down charge and, despite being "fully charged," that charge went some 10 hours at a low rate of less than 2 amps before the charger's programming called things done. So what's going on? That wetting down charge ensures all active material is set up properly. Recall that a battery's capacity is dependent on active surface area available while terminal voltage, at zero current flow, will show its nominal electro-chemistry voltage regardless of surface area.

 

[Big Dog Daddy]

@Snakebitten
Happy birthday to the KR PB land yacht! Born on April 4th 2022!

It would appear Ford has really done there homework on this. 39a at startup and then a slow ramp down in charge rate as the battery nears target, that really is a tremendous change in charging strategy. I don't think the 5 point drop after being parked is that unusual, I've seen mine do that, as we well know these trucks are still semi conscious for an hour or so after shut down. It's looks like you won't have to baby that battery with the trickle charger anymore.

I agree that your charging system seems to be seeking that 95% setting, and with that maybe you would now want to consider backing that down to 85 or 90% and test to see if it now would seek for the new target number. As we've learned AGM's don't like to be over charged. I'd bet that the O.E. battery will last a couple of more years, I don't think that living in an under charged state would hurt it, over charged would hurt it more I think.

As far as my truck goes, on the ice side of things. The most recent updates have also vastly improved the charging rate, on startup I frequently see charging rates of 18 to 22a where previously I never saw more then 9 to 12a and it leaves the battery at 75 to 85% almost all of the time, even after weeks of short trips! We'll be driving down to Naples, FL in two weeks. I'm going two monitor this for two 12 hour days of driving and try to get a feel for what the system does.

Ok, I've got to call you out on this.
"I drove non-stop to Tallahassee the first day. 700+ miles."
You had to have stopped to take a leak. ??

 

[Atlee]

Is it possible a lot of the bad OEM batteries became problematic because they were put in trucks that were held back by Ford because they were missing a chip or two?

Knock on wood, the battery in my truck has performed well so far. To date, I haven't had any trouble with downloads. I've never hooked up a battery charger/maintainer.

There was never any hold on my truck. It was built 12/23/21. The dealer got it the 1st week in February 2022.

 

[Snakebitten]

Reading between the lines on your posts, you aren't the 3 mile commute owner exactly.
Instead, your Powerboost has spent many miles covering distances. As well as many hours/days in generator mode.

In other words, your AGM gets a lot of DC/DC converter nursing, along with not being abandoned in a field early in its life.

 

[HammaMan]

Seems like they actually allowed the SOC setting to actually do something. They did this in the mach-es first and they charge 90%+ now pretty quickly. Its little ~30ah battery would trigger sync sleep in just 5 welcome lighting activations.

Can't speak for the PB since its got the LFP. It's always ~13.3v now thanks to the reserve capacity.

 

[Kodiak]

@Snakebitten
Happy birthday to the KR PB land yacht! Born on April 4th 2022!

Ok, I've got to call you out on this.
"I drove non-stop to Tallahassee the first day. 700+ miles."
You had to have stopped to take a leak. ??

Thats just another perk of the KRS Edition. Not only does it come with a wheel girl, it comes with an internal portapotty. Tricky to use and not make a mess while driving, but it is there.

@Snakebitten - Thanks for posting that in depth study you did on the charging system. I do hope it was an update that shows these improvements to the BMS. Little by little if Ford takes the time to learn "real world" happens with this PB, they should be able to polish this into a real class leader for this niche.

I would love to see a future option to sacrifice some payload for a larger battery so the truck could get just a little more electric driving.

 

[Handle]

Great write up @Snakebitten.

It’s been 3 weeks since BCM OTA 24-PU0121-FTDI-FX loaded and with only monitoring voltage & SOC via BT it is remarkable the improvement Ford released on the BMS. The amperage you reported is eye popping.

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