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Factory battery ongoing issues

Jersey Jim

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...... Does anyone know where the temperature sensor is that the computer uses to set system voltage? That may tell a story as to why system voltage remained so high after long hours on the road.
Ambient outside air temp is bottom of the passenger side mirror. Unless they're using the BMS shunt processor on the negative battery post. More indicative of battery temp.

Use a hair dryer or heat gun to determine which one lowers charge voltage.
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Gros Ventre

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Ambient outside air temp is bottom of the passenger side mirror. Unless they're using the BMS shunt processor on the negative battery post. More indicative of battery temp.

Use a hair dryer or heat gun to determine which one lowers charge voltage.
Bottom of the outside mirror... Well how about that! I suspect that is the one in use by Ford in their programming of system voltage and would explain the wintertime voltages I've seen. If you look back at a post I've put up, there is a formula for float voltage versus temperature. The system voltages appear to follow that with the exception of the voltages I've seen for the deep winter with a fully warmed up engine compartment. Those voltages just stayed high as if the warmup had not occurred. That really confused the issue for me. My conclusion now is that Ford programmed the system voltages right along classic battery charging and floating lines. I've remarked that one should look out into the truck from the battery instead of looking into the battery from the computer. This then leads me back to my conclusion that Ford OEM Batteries are/were defective in some way. My experience was simple: had some weird readings 4 months after delivery, replaced the battery with a Non-Ford battery (NAPA off the shelf) and have had zero weird things since.
 
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Jersey Jim

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Glad you found it.

Maybe someone can help "me" find something. Which module, connector & wire color does the "Gencom" signal use, going to the alternator? I think it should be the center wire of the alternator's 3-wire connector, possibly an "RC" signal on the alternator?

I plan to conveniently switch the alternator side of this soon to be "cut wire", between it's original connection (factory PWM source), and a PWM module (pic below) that I manually adjust the duty Cycle of the selected 100hz signal. This will allow me to dial up any steady alternator output voltage, driving and accelerating any charge current within reasonable limits. This will prove useful for cold weather and short trips. The BMS will still tally up the ramped-up Amp-hours, show charge-current, etc., but also allow me to not worry about adding enough loads to keep charge-mode from going into "Fast Regen". It will also allow me to charge with a few more amps, speeding up the process. Not that I'm trying to charge fast, but how rediculous is driving for hours at 1 amp or less, when clearly there are way more Amp-hours to replace! $12

And a 3-position (center off) toggle switch, placed in center position should simulate unplugging the alternators 3-wire connector, placing it in "dumb mode" with a steady 13.8V, regardless of rpm, the way alternators used to work.


Ford F-150 Factory battery ongoing issues Screenshot_20240428_230624_Chrom
 
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HammaMan

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Finally got around to this 3 days after putting the new battery into service. After getting home from an errand with the wife at 9pm (Rita's), battery had 101% SOC. It displayed it's max 100% when shutting down, but it took 2 amps for enough minutes (21) to rack up another 1%. 1 hour after shutdown the battery measured 13.13V at the rear-bumper receptacle. 7 hours after shutdown it measured 13.08V, then I opened the doors, key on and Forscan app read 99%.

When I returned the H6 for a core charge/credit yesterday morning (7 mile drive), I shut down at the store with 100% and surprisingly had the same 100% when getting back in the truck . In the past I always experienced at least a 2% drop with the old battery doing short errands like that.

I mentioned Advance Auto the other day where I got the battery, but it was Auto Zone at other end of the block. Was a Duralast Platinum H7. Hopefully Duralast used good lead and not alloys. So far It's exceeded my expectations.
You found an AGM that identifies as an LFP - SWEET.
Ford needs to feed their batteries more caffeine or something.
 

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HammaMan

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Glad you found it.

Maybe someone can help "me" find something. Which module, connector & wire color does the "Gencom" signal use, going to the alternator? I think it should be the center wire of the alternator's 3-wire connector, possibly an "RC" signal on the alternator?

I plan to conveniently switch the alternator side of this soon to be "cut wire", between it's original connection (factory PWM source), and a PWM module (pic below) that I manually adjust the duty Cycle of the selected 100hz signal. This will allow me to dial up any steady alternator output voltage, driving and accelerating any charge current within reasonable limits. This will prove useful for cold weather and short trips. The BMS will still tally up the ramped-up Amp-hours, show charge-current, etc., but also allow me to not worry about adding enough loads to keep charge-mode from going into "Fast Regen". It will also allow me to charge with a few more amps, speeding up the process. Not that I'm trying to charge fast, but how rediculous is driving for hours at 1 amp or less, when clearly there are way more Amp-hours to replace! $12

And a 3-position (center off) toggle switch, placed in center position should simulate unplugging the alternators 3-wire connector, placing it in "dumb mode" with a steady 13.8V, regardless of rpm, the way alternators used to work.
Unfortunately you don't get off that easy. Communication is done via LIN bus. No PWM/Voltage sense modification for you. Given the latest rounds of software updates, the forscan set point seems to be alive based on reports. IF the new BMS logic was OTA'd to you AND you have forscan, change your SOC set point to 95% or so.

Ford F-150 Factory battery ongoing issues 1714594912226-58
 

Jersey Jim

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Thought for sure this was a PWM alternator. Tried to get to the 3-pin connector the other day but it's underneath it. Could only see a single small gauge conductor entering alternator from the side. Could this be the comm wire? I was going to get underneath and remove air dam so could get to the 3-wire connector. So you're saying it doesn't even have one?
 

HammaMan

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Thought for sure this was a PWM alternator. Tried to get to the 3-pin connector the other day but it's underneath it. Could only see a single small gauge conductor entering alternator from the side. Could this be the comm wire? I was going to get underneath and remove air dam so could get to the 3-wire connector. So you're saying it doesn't even have one?
Not per the manual. When it says LIN it's LIN. There's likely diagnostics data on there as well, not just voltage command. Even the battery shunt communicates on LIN bus.

Ford F-150 Factory battery ongoing issues 1714601138848-yd
 

Gros Ventre

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Glad you found it.

Maybe someone can help "me" find something. Which module, connector & wire color does the "Gencom" signal use, going to the alternator? I think it should be the center wire of the alternator's 3-wire connector, possibly an "RC" signal on the alternator?

I plan to conveniently switch the alternator side of this soon to be "cut wire", between it's original connection (factory PWM source), and a PWM module (pic below) that I manually adjust the duty Cycle of the selected 100hz signal. This will allow me to dial up any steady alternator output voltage, driving and accelerating any charge current within reasonable limits. This will prove useful for cold weather and short trips. The BMS will still tally up the ramped-up Amp-hours, show charge-current, etc., but also allow me to not worry about adding enough loads to keep charge-mode from going into "Fast Regen". It will also allow me to charge with a few more amps, speeding up the process. Not that I'm trying to charge fast, but how rediculous is driving for hours at 1 amp or less, when clearly there are way more Amp-hours to replace! $12

And a 3-position (center off) toggle switch, placed in center position should simulate unplugging the alternators 3-wire connector, placing it in "dumb mode" with a steady 13.8V, regardless of rpm, the way alternators used to work.


Screenshot_20240428_230624_Chrome.jpg
Be careful. You can recharge a battery too fast and this kind of battery is more susceptible to overcharging. In a flooded cell battery there's a relationship called "Temperature-Voltage-Gassing." The purpose is to limit the amount of current when the battery charge is above about 70% so that the gassing won't cause spalling off of active material. These AGM batteries are likely less susceptible to this because they've got thinner plates. Still if you're manually controlling things you can get distracted and so on. Also if there's a big change on the busses, you may not react quickly enough and something might get damaged.
 

Snakebitten

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If it's a Powerboost, or at least programmed like mine recently has been, posts from a year (or more) ago are no longer valid.
At least my posts regarding monitoring the Low Voltage charging strategy, are no longer representative of the truck today.

The charging "curve" and target SOC are now considerably more aggressive than they were for the first 104 weeks.
 

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Big Dog Daddy

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@Jersey Jim having the latest software updates on my PCM and BCM have vastly improved the charging system rate of charge on my 21 5.0, I would assume that these updates would also yield the same or similar result with your 2.7. We're probably not going to see the same result as @Snakebitten has discovered with the powerboost. But it's definitely a significant improvement over what we had a year and a half ago.
 

Jersey Jim

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Be careful. You can recharge a battery too fast and this kind of battery is more susceptible to overcharging. In a flooded cell battery there's a relationship called "Temperature-Voltage-Gassing." The purpose is to limit the amount of current when the battery charge is above about 70% so that the gassing won't cause spalling off of active material. These AGM batteries are likely less susceptible to this because they've got thinner plates. Still if you're manually controlling things you can get distracted and so on. Also if there's a big change on the busses, you may not react quickly enough and something might get damaged.
Thanks Bill. Like I mentioned, I don't want to charge fast, I just want to make the most of sometimes short errands and not trickle at 1 amp. 200 amps at my disposal and don't charge as well as a battery tender sometimes does. More importantly, I want to stop the battery discharging 10-30 amps when rolling to a stoplight. This brief minute or less negates quite a few miles of 1 or 2 amp trickling while driving. Granted when I take back off the battery accepts 10 or so amps for a brief few seconds until tapering back down to an amp or 2. How can they build a charging system that "loses ground" so easily?

I'm going to have to go back to a very high Target SOC. The only thing I ever saw this parameter trigger was on the "increase" of SOC reaching setpoint, was the predictable and repeatable transition at 78% SOC from conventional charge mode, to the next 2 modes, slow regen and fast regen. Fast regen is one I'm trying to avoid, as this permits current to flow OUT of the battery under various conditions. I think the labeling of these parameters is a Forscan app thing but clearly the 1st, 2nd and 3rd modes that get transitioned to above 78% (when target SOC at 80%).

Yesterday I did the bare minimum driving on the 4 day old battery (27 miles home from work), and did not have as high a resting voltage this morning 8-1/2 hours after shutting engine off. This morning I had 12.97V opposed the the prior morning's 13.08V after driving more that day and measuring after just 7 resting hours. I don't know what the Forscan SOC reported yet, as I measured this voltage from outside the vehicle and haven't entered the vehicle yet.

I'll watch this for a few weeks to see if this new Duralast Platinum is just a flash in the pan.
 
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HammaMan

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Yesterday I did the bare minimum driving on the 4 day old battery (27 miles home from work), and did not have as high a resting voltage this morning 8-1/2 hours after shutting engine off. This morning I had 12.97V opposed the the prior morning's 13.08V after driving more that day and measuring after just 7 resting hours. I don't know what the Forscan SOC reported yet, as I measured this voltage from outside the vehicle and haven't entered the vehicle yet.
Did you wake it up (have key in pocket)? Waking it up starts eating juice. Curious if your measurements include disturbing it w/ keyfob on your person or the hood is up and key inside. You will get varying results w/ the key on you. The kids get a kick out of the welcome lighting. "whys it do that?" - "It's my dog - it's happy to see me" Tell it it's a good boy, hit the lock button in my pocket and the lights flash "see he understands me" :ROFLMAO:
 

Gros Ventre

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"Granted when I take back off the battery accepts 10 or so amps for a brief few seconds until tapering back down to an amp or 2. How can they build a charging system that "loses ground" so easily?" A little bit of history... in the bad old days of generators instead of alternators... Cars usually discharged the battery at idle since the generators they used did not have enough rpm at idle to put out current. Then the JFK Inauguration debacle happened and Detroit got religion and shifted to alternators... So I see the parallel here with the engine off at stop lights and so on... Only now with the computer controlled engines they can monitor things and kick on the engine if the battery discharges too much...
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