Powerboost or RamCharger

[Porpoise Hork]

I am interested in the Ram Charger as well but one thing that I'm wondering is the reported possibility that the ICE will always be running regardless of the EV battery SOC level. I mean if true then what's the point for a hybrid EV with an effective electric only range of 120+ miles if it's still burning gasoline the entire time? Seems counter productive to me if this is how they configured it.

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[Snakebitten]

I've never driven an ecoboust, no.

How does it cut lag? it seems inevitable. An aggressive motor to pre-spin, maybe?

Wait. You are on a Ford F150 forum.
3 of the 4 drivetrain options for the F150 are turbocharged engines. You haven't ever driven any of them but are concerned about turbo lag because you've never driven a turbo vehicle that didn't lag. ????

Come on man. ?
The dealership lots are bulging with inventory. Go test drive all 4 options. Then and only then will your declarations carry sufficient weight.

I'm honestly looking forward to hearing your feedback.

 

[HammaMan]

Depends on gas prices. At $3.30/g and 20mpg, it's 16.5 cents per mile. Ramcharger will do about 2mi/kWh in summer. There's no public charging infrastructure that's going to beat 33 cents / kWh. With places that have high power rates like california at 25 cents / kWh you're not saving much. In my state all power from 11p-7a is a hair over 3 cents (out the door) while all other times is about 9. Summer its 25 cents 2-9p M-F. If you have solar paid off and the vehicle is able to be charged with the sun up that's where the savings really comes into perspective.

The only reliable public charging infrastructure is teslas -- everyone else is a total crapshoot that cannot be relied upon. For the ramcharger to even make sense one needs to be able to charge at home with great rates. It doesn't really provide the same maintenance free experience EVs do while still having the ICE with its typical maint. As to its efficiency operating strictly off gasoline, it's likely going to be right there with the powerboost. Motor>inverter>battery>inverter>motor can expect to see 10-15% loss, just like a transmission. It can regen its braking fully so we'll really have to wait and see what it can actually do. By all appearances its weak link looks to be its battery life. If it's not LFP based, I expect to see a statistically relevant number of them being replaced before the warranty is up.

 

[Calson]

In 2022 I chose to buy the first Ford truck since owning the far from durable full size Bronco SUV. I wanted a large gas tank and that meant Ford or Ram. The rear bed access from the ground is a little better with the Ford with its pullout step and pullout grab bar and I make use of this all the time.

I did not like the Ram with the eTorque power units that are a $2,000 expense to replace when they fail. The 3.5L Ecoboot with its turbos is a better solution and acceleration is excellent. Where I live the freeway onramps are extremely short and often less than 100 feet to go from 20 mph to 65 mph to have a chance of merging with trucks on the freeway.

A key test I do with any vehicle I am considering is taking it to the nearest freeway ramp and seeing how long it takes to accelerate. The Honda Pilot with the 10-speed transmission was terrible and would not downshift fast enough. The 6-speed transmission was only available on the base models and so I bought a Chevy Traverse instead in 2018.

The Powerboost gets in theory and additional 3 mpg for an improvement of 15%. I do not drive enough to ever recapture the higher cost of trucks with this engine and battery pack. I have no need for the option to power my house during a power failure as I have a fossil gas powered 16kW standby generator.

Ford makes it unnecessarily difficult to spec out a truck in 2024. If I want the 3.5L ecoboost engine I am forced to add tow/haul for an additional $1,000. I also cannot get the truck with the 6.5 bed although I had no problem in 2022 doing this. I can see why Ford has production problems and order delays as they needlessly complicate truck ordering with so many more configurations than one sees with GM or with Ram.

Something that has puzzled me is the desire to have power running boards. With trucks I can see the merit of running boards that make it easier to get up and into the cab and that add protection for the sides of the truck from debris tossed up by the tired. Having the running boards retract eliminates their ability to protect the sides of the truck.

 

[Samson16]

I've never driven an ecoboust, no.

How does it cut lag? it seems inevitable. An aggressive motor to pre-spin, maybe?

Generally speaking they increased the engine compression ratio and decreased the size of the turbos until the proverbial sweet spot was located and then optimized from there.

 

[HammaMan]

The Powerboost gets in theory and additional 3 mpg for an improvement of 15%. I do not drive enough to ever recapture the higher cost of trucks with this engine and battery pack. I have no need for the option to power my house during a power failure as I have a fossil gas powered 16kW standby generator.

Powerboost engine is now free. You do have to pay for the 3.73 locking rear end though as part of the package.

As for backup power, it's at night where the PB shines. That 16kW standby generator is burning over a gallon an hour just to run. There's really no comparison to be had when the load is light. A decent inverter generator might halve that fuel burn.

 

[Todd Haag]

I’m a Ford guy, so my comment might be a bit biased. Extremely happy with my 2023 Ford F150 Power Boost with the 3.5 L twin turbo. Very happy with the mileage and the power. Currently have just under 30,000 miles with two extended trips to the Midwest the past two summers.

 

[dochawk]

one thing that I'm wondering is the reported possibility that the ICE will always be running regardless of the EV battery SOC level.

That would seem extremely unlikely. It has enough battery that it will never need the generator in a mere fraction of a second, which that engine can do.

You haven't ever driven any of them but are concerned about turbo lag because you've never driven a turbo vehicle that didn't lag. ????

?

Actually, I stopped even looking years ago. After a few rounds, the "really, it works this time. We know we said that last time, and the time before, but this time we mean it!" . Kind of like the dozens of times Microsoft told us that windows was done crashing with this version . . .

OK, I'll try one. Err, two.

And looking back, I didn't notice any lags on the powerboost, and I did open it up a couple of times.

Something that has puzzled me is the desire to have power running boards.

It's about my wife's back. Getting in and out of her mother's jeep three times the same day left her sore for three days! Ideally, a two-step solution, but I haven't seen one of those.

At $3.30/g and 20mpg, it's 16.5 cents per mile. Ramcharger will do about 2mi/kWh in summer. There's no public charging infrastructure that's going to beat 33 cents / kWh.

so under 7c/mile at my local rates.

But I don't see bothering to charge it at a public charger as making any sense; ten minutes for just fifty miles.

 

[HammaMan]

But I don't see bothering to charge it at a public charger as making any sense; ten minutes for just fifty miles.

Clearly because odds are it's cheaper to put gas in it at current prices. It's just a basic NA V6 engine that runs on 87. Those variables might change when in the DPRC, but at the same time charging is also more $$ there.

 

[Samson16]

DPRC is California for those of you in Rio Linda.

 

[Hullguy]

Depends on gas prices. At $3.30/g and 20mpg, it's 16.5 cents per mile. Ramcharger will do about 2mi/kWh in summer. There's no public charging infrastructure that's going to beat 33 cents / kWh. With places that have high power rates like california at 25 cents / kWh you're not saving much. In my state all power from 11p-7a is a hair over 3 cents (out the door) while all other times is about 9. Summer its 25 cents 2-9p M-F. If you have solar paid off and the vehicle is able to be charged with the sun up that's where the savings really comes into perspective.

The only reliable public charging infrastructure is teslas -- everyone else is a total crapshoot that cannot be relied upon. For the ramcharger to even make sense one needs to be able to charge at home with great rates. It doesn't really provide the same maintenance free experience EVs do while still having the ICE with its typical maint. As to its efficiency operating strictly off gasoline, it's likely going to be right there with the powerboost. Motor>inverter>battery>inverter>motor can expect to see 10-15% loss, just like a transmission. It can regen its braking fully so we'll really have to wait and see what it can actually do. By all appearances its weak link looks to be its battery life. If it's not LFP based, I expect to see a statistically relevant number of them being replaced before the warranty is up.

One of the costs that is never brought up is the purchase and installation of a Level 2 charger for the house. Although there is a technology to get around this, if you have a 100 amp service you’ll need a new service. This is approaching $12k in my area of the country.

 

[BMCGC]

(300)My takeaway from reading through this thread.

You want a DD, that you will drive far less than your classics that have none of the extensive list of requirements that you list for the DD. That doesn't make much sense to me.

After 40 years of accident-free driving, I was taken out by a careless driver and a meth head in two accidents, 6 months apart. Had I been in my 65 or 67 Mustang, either accident would have sent me to the morgue. I am all about crumple zones, airbags and anti-lock brakes now.

"Turbo lag" is cave man thinking. 3.73 gears and the 10R80 will give any of the engine choices plenty of on demand power.

The 10R80 has seven gears from 4.696 to 1.0, plus three OD gears. Your Caddy has three gears, 2.48, 1.48, and 1.0.

My last nine F-series trucks were 1964 (292), 1966 (352), 1980 (4.9), 1996 (5.0), 2005 (4.6), 2009 (4.6), 2010 (4.6), 2020 (5.0), 2023 (PB).

The gear ratio was the overwhelming factor in performance in all of them. The 2020 had a 3.31 and was an absolute dog compared to the 2023 with a 3.73 and is a rocket.

Had to edit, I forgot the Bullnose.

 

[fatBatman]

You have a very demanding list of "needs" especially considering HUD in trucks is just a year old (I think GM was the first in 2023 but I could be wrong).
Still, the PowerBoost has been made for a few years with extremely reliable reports. The Ramcharger doesn't exist today and as picky as you sound (especially without ever driving one of the current trucks), I don't think you want to be a first year guinea pig.

Nevertheless, I too am looking forward to the Ramcharger. The idea of a gasoline electric hybrid sounds promising especially once they remove the transmission and other components from the driveline. I could see this being a very reliable platform especially since all they have to do is find the perfect engine and focus on making their electronics reliable. The second part seems to be the most tricky for almost every automaker.

Since the Ramcharger doesn't exist, just buy a PowerBoost and wait for a few years until Ram/Dodge has everything figured out. By then, I'd imagine more automakers including Ford would have something similar in the works and you could fulfill your tremendous "needs" list today.

 

[HammaMan]

One of the costs that is never brought up is the purchase and installation of a Level 2 charger for the house. Although there is a technology to get around this, if you have a 100 amp service you’ll need a new service. This is approaching $12k in my area of the country.

That's pretty pricey!

EVs don't need need anything special on the electric front. Even the often-included 32 amp EVSE is overkill (both in price and capability). Just install a 10/2 run to a 30 amp receptacle and use a 25a EVSE. Depending on the EV, that's 12-24 miles added per hour charged. Most people don't even charge daily unless they've set a battery-prolonging, very low max SOC. I know of people who won't charge above 50% for their daily charge. That type of use/charging extends the life of the battery exceptionally long. I only charge once per week to 80%

 

[BMCGC]

Would I give Stellantis a deposit? Hell no. They consistently have 7-8 of the slowest selling vehicles in America.

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