Installed Transfer Switch in House

[HammaMan]

This thread has gone down a pretty hilarious tangent regarding a function that's clearly capable of the truck, with less cost than it takes to make the lightning do the same thing...

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[Kodiak]

Start up the truck. Plug in some extension cords and run them into your house. Plug in what you need to run. Sounds like it is powering a house to me?

It will do anything a 7k watt portable generator will do without the need to drive to a gas station and fill up 2 or 3, 5 gallon gas cans 2 or 3 times a day. Also pouring gas into a running, hot portable generator is not something I really like to do.

 

[Gros Ventre]

All of the hoopla over whether Ford tells you that you can't power your house because its set up only as a jobsite source is phony. Here is a Ford advertisement on generators. Note the apparently the 2.0 & 9.6 kWs are floating neutral and the 2.4 & 7.2 kWs are bonded neutral. There is not a whiff of the issue of an inability to power a home by "just plugging in:"

"Pro Power Onboard lets you leave the generator at home and free up cargo space

"Four different outputs provide the right power option for any situation, including some of the following examples:

• 2.0 kilowatts: Mobile device charging, laptop charging, and running a copier/printer all at once
• 2.4 kilowatts: Mobile device charging while simultaneously running a mini fridge, large TV, large speakers, and coffee pot
• 7.2 kilowatts: Running a 12-inch compound miter saw, circular saw, gang battery charger, hammer drill, 1/2 hp air compressor, area floodlights, and portable speakers at the same time
• 9.6 kilowatts**: Powering a residential construction job site for three days on a single charge

"The F-150 Lightning has three available sources of power located in the Mega Power Frunk, cab, and bed. All locations have 120V outlets with an available 240V outlet in the bed with a 9.6-kilowatt variant.

"Pro Power Onboard is functional while the vehicle is in motion.

Note: Ford recommends using Underwriter's Laboratories (UL)-approved devices with power outlets. UL is the standard for safety and compliance. It identifies a product that is certified for conformity and tested for quality. You can find the "UL" mark on the device's label or manufacturer-provided power cable."

 

[Snakebitten]

Interesting. So nothing, not a word, regarding the Powerboost and a residential home power distribution panel.

Just a quick Google of Ford Powerboost and Texas Freeze.
And Ford Powerboost and Hurricane

I read every word of every article.
Not a hint of press regarding using a Powerboost for whole home/Power distribution.
In fact, the most common comments across all the articles are "Ford advertises the Powerboost for powering a job site" and pictures of Powerboost ProPower with extensions chords, along with lots of discussion of kitchen appliances.

Powerboost press

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a35152752/powered-house-ford-f-150-hybrid/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/18/som...hybrids-to-power-homes-amid-winter-storm.html

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...texas-freeze-powers-up-appliances-156390.html

https://valuford.com/ford-f-150-powerboost-used-to-power-home-during-blackout/

https://www.motortrend.com/news/202...t-hybrid-powering-texas-homes-winter-weather/

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/bu...h-storm-help-their-ford-pickup-tesla-n1258364

Note: This article (below) did say "PowerBoost’s Pro Power Onboard generator has enough juice to power an entire home, as we’ve previously reported."

https://fordauthority.com/2021/02/2...pickups-are-lifesavers-in-texas-winter-storm/

Note: some office QUOTES from Ford in this article below

https://people.com/human-interest/f...th-generators-power-outages-winter-snowstorm/

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ford-2021-f-150-generators-texas-winter-storm-outage/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...torm-power-outage-2021-ford-f-150/4504945001/

https://www.ford-trucks.com/article...ves-texans-in-need-of-an-emergency-generator/

https://fordauthority.com/2022/09/ford-announces-disaster-relief-response-to-hurricane-ian/

https://www.thelascopress.com/2021/09/ford-f-150-hybrid-to-the-rescue-after-hurricane-ida/

 

[Snooker_ML]

I do want to talk about this as well. I actually tried to remove the neutral/ground bond in the box and leave everything in tact for the F-150.

But, somewhere in the house, something was tied where it should not have been. So, I still got the truck fault.

And, though, it would not have been to code (really? not sure I believe this). But, for the temporary time I was off of grid and on the truck, if I could have just split the bond at the box and left it at the truck, that would have been cool with me. But, since someone wired the house wrong, I was not able to do this. It was bonded either in the house or the box just by wiring wrong.

EDIT: I was wrong about this. Not paying attention as I was watching 100 Foot Wave at the same time!

If you remove the neutral/ground bond then how are all of your house circuits grounded to EARTH ? The truck bonded neutral isn't.

You may be tripping the truck GFCI just due to a small leakage to the return ground, and your house may be wired properly. Again, only 0.006 Amps will trip GFCI I've read, and the truck GFCI may be even more sensitive than house circuits, who knows?

 

[Snooker_ML]

All of the hoopla over whether Ford tells you that you can't power your house because its set up only as a jobsite source is phony. Here is a Ford advertisement on generators. Note the apparently the 2.0 & 9.6 kWs are floating neutral and the 2.4 & 7.2 kWs are bonded neutral. There is not a whiff of the issue of an inability to power a home by "just plugging in:"

"Pro Power Onboard lets you leave the generator at home and free up cargo space

"Four different outputs provide the right power option for any situation, including some of the following examples:

• 2.0 kilowatts: Mobile device charging, laptop charging, and running a copier/printer all at once
• 2.4 kilowatts: Mobile device charging while simultaneously running a mini fridge, large TV, large speakers, and coffee pot
• 7.2 kilowatts: Running a 12-inch compound miter saw, circular saw, gang battery charger, hammer drill, 1/2 hp air compressor, area floodlights, and portable speakers at the same time
• 9.6 kilowatts**: Powering a residential construction job site for three days on a single charge

"The F-150 Lightning has three available sources of power located in the Mega Power Frunk, cab, and bed. All locations have 120V outlets with an available 240V outlet in the bed with a 9.6-kilowatt variant.

"Pro Power Onboard is functional while the vehicle is in motion.

Note: Ford recommends using Underwriter's Laboratories (UL)-approved devices with power outlets. UL is the standard for safety and compliance. It identifies a product that is certified for conformity and tested for quality. You can find the "UL" mark on the device's label or manufacturer-provided power cable."

When I read this, it reinforces the idea that "wow look at all the outlets that the truck supplies so I can plug in all my stuff!". Everything points to using the outlets IMHO. Nothing implies you can't power a home by "plugging it in", but neither does it imply you CAN. I don't think your argument is valid.
It is a natural extension that you should be able to just plug it in, but...

 

[jeffcrum]

If you remove the neutral/ground bond then how are all of your house circuits grounded to EARTH ? The truck bonded neutral isn't.

You may be tripping the truck GFCI just due to a small leakage to the return ground, and your house may be wired properly. Again, only 0.006 Amps will trip GFCI I've read, and the truck GFCI may be even more sensitive than house circuits, who knows?

If we believe that the truck itself is ground to 'earth' as a power source, then we have to believe that is the case if I remove the bond at the house when the truck is connected. Right?

But, since I could not do that, what I do know is that it never tripped in three days. We kept cool, worked, and watched crap TV every night while always keeping the beer cold and the food frozen.

 

[Gros Ventre]

The issue is having two neutral-ground bonds. That is what trips the GFCI. Your F-150 has one of those, when it senses the same inside the house it trips. If you have a "Green Bonding screw" in your panel (Not all codes will have it installed - in mine they require the bond out in the meter panel and removal of that screw) you could simply remove it when you hook up your truck. Your house will remain grounded via the neutral-ground bond inside your truck and then out to the ground rods. But... don't forget to reinstall it after you're done with its power.

 

[Gros Ventre]

As to snakebitten above: sometimes your arguments are the phoniest in town

 

[Snooker_ML]

If we believe that the truck itself is ground to 'earth' as a power source, then we have to believe that is the case if I remove the bond at the house when the truck is connected. Right?

But, since I could not do that, what I do know is that it never tripped in three days. We kept cool, worked, and watched crap TV every night while always keeping the beer cold and the food frozen.

Yeah I was wrong. Not paying close enough attention, my head isn't into this discussion anymore. But the truck ground wire is only grounded to earth if you connect it all the way to the ground at your breaker panel and on to the earth ground rod.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm not sure why I am so under your skin, but I regret it.

It's just an opposing opinion.
Nothing personal.

 

[HammaMan]

I'm not sure why I am so under your skin, but I regret it.

It's just an opposing opinion.
Nothing personal.

Just get him to block ya and unless you have multiple means of viewing the forums, as in other than logged in, ya won't see him

I know, you'll get to miss out on things like "the earth is an excellent conductor" despite having between 250 ohms per inch to being a near perfect insulator, depending on soil conditions. I do look forward to hearing about his nuisance trips after going out of his way to earth the truck for reasons known only to him. Doing so achieves but one thing, increasing the statistical probability of it being struck by lightning.

 

[DANJENS]

So in 2019 we had a long power outage and so I had bought a couple invertor generators that can run together and get me 6.6kw power to run most my house. Called an electrician to put in a transfer switch and he said I can't without doing a very expensive rewire because of potential code issues with an older house/panel and new code. For now I just run power chords. I got my powerboost thinking ok if I ever did decide to put in the transfer switch it would be handy. I still think I will use the smaller generators while I run to work so my wife and kids have power. Frankly my f150 likes to sleep in the garage when there are high winds and limbs falling out in the yard. I am not sure in the end I will leave the garage door open to power the house instead of lugging gas tanks etc. But I love the 7.2 kw for glamping. Until I decide to bite the bullet and update that panel I will watch this thread with interest. I will say my salesperson was happy to say that the powerboost could power a small home and said nothing about transfer switches. I thought that was just common knowledge about whole home generators. I guess now that I think about it if I hadn't done some research about backup generators years ago I would have just assumed I could plug right into the power grid and run my whole house.

 

[dzacco]

So in 2019 we had a long power outage and so I had bought a couple invertor generators that can run together and get me 6.6kw power to run most my house. Called an electrician to put in a transfer switch and he said I can't without doing a very expensive rewire because of potential code issues with an older house/panel and new code. For now I just run power chords. I got my powerboost thinking ok if I ever did decide to put in the transfer switch it would be handy. I still think I will use the smaller generators while I run to work so my wife and kids have power. Frankly my f150 likes to sleep in the garage when there are high winds and limbs falling out in the yard. I am not sure in the end I will leave the garage door open to power the house instead of lugging gas tanks etc. But I love the 7.2 kw for glamping. Until I decide to bite the bullet and update that panel I will watch this thread with interest. I will say my salesperson was happy to say that the powerboost could power a small home and said nothing about transfer switches. I thought that was just common knowledge about whole home generators. I guess now that I think about it if I hadn't done some research about backup generators years ago I would have just assumed I could plug right into the power grid and run my whole house.

Your electrician could have made an automatic transfer switch using a 30A latching lighting contactor and a sub panel for the emergency power circuits. When power drops out from main utility, the contactor will open the utility contacts and close the auxiliary power contacts. When normal power comes back on, the auxillary contacts open and the utility power contacts close. Eaton and Schneider/Square D have them available. You will need to switch the neutral with the two hot conductors. The same thing can be accomplished using a three pole manual transfer switch with previously mentioned sub panel.

 

[HammaMan]

Your electrician could have made an automatic transfer switch using a 30A latching lighting contactor and a sub panel for the emergency power circuits. When power drops out from main utility, the contactor will open the utility contacts and close the auxiliary power contacts. When normal power comes back on, the auxillary contacts open and the utility power contacts close. Eaton and Schneider/Square D have them available. You will need to switch the neutral with the two hot conductors. The same thing can be accomplished using a three pole manual transfer switch with previously mentioned sub panel.

No - His E likely wanted to do it to code, which requires inspections, and if you go playing with the main panel, the local code authority may require getting a panel to code if any work is done to it. It could very likely be a situation that involved work that'd require a panel forklift which is going to run on the light side $2,500, which depending on age could even require some cable pulling. Just the panel and 20 breakers is $1,300 at the cheapest, actual cost.

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