Factory battery ongoing issues

[m_bt54]

I also broke down and replaced mine with the recommended Walmart battery a couple weeks ago and have had no issues since. Probably should have done this 6 months ago. I considered the X2 Power option but couldn’t justify paying almost double for it.

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[Kanuck]

Buying a new battery will not be the fix in the long term. I think that because of Ford's battery charging strategy, the new battery will drop down to your existing battery level given time. A maintainer connected to the battery is, unfortunately, the way to go. As I see it. No matter how good a battery is, if not charged correctly or fully, it will not perform as expected over time.

Just my opinion.

 

[m_bt54]

Buying a new battery will not be the fix in the long term. I think that because of Ford's battery charging strategy, the new battery will drop down to your existing battery level given time. A maintainer connected to the battery is, unfortunately, the way to go. As I see it. No matter how good a battery is, if not charged correctly or fully, it will not perform as expected over time.

Just my opinion.

Good thing this new one has a 4 year warranty. I’ll just keep replacing it if it does happen. I barely got 2 years out of the original.

 

[Kanuck]

Good thing this new one has a 4 year warranty. I’ll just keep replacing it if it does happen. I barely got 2 years out of the original.

My truck battery will be 3 years old on May 6th. Had a 1.5 Amp Noco maintainer for about 6 months, but went to a 5 Amp Noco. I want to see how long I can make the original battery last being on a maintainer. I had a maintainer on my 2009 Honda quad AGM battery from day one. Had to finally replace the battery last year.

 

[Gros Ventre]

The large vehicle manufacturing company I work has a 5% cost reduction goal every year for the supply management group. Low bid wins. Low bid is only possible with less expensive materials for supplier components. Ford has to be buying the cheapest batteries possible. End sidebar.

I agree, just replace your battery with non-OEM, preferably an expensive one to avoid above situation. Northstar/X2 with 100% lead plates is the most expensive for a reason. You get what you pay for...

You get what you pay for... truer words cannot be spoken when it comes to batteries. The purity level of the materials used in a battery means a lot to its life and ability to provide power when needed. That costs money. Ford was (internally) embarrassed by the NiMH batteries they put in the Escape Hybrid. It had a very low failure rate and they ended up with more spare batteries on the shelf than they predicted. I believe because they specified a high level of purity. My 2006 Escape Hybrid is still going strong on its OEM NiMH battery. I infer that Ford took delivery of a bad or cheap set of batteries with less than normal grades of purity of components. Like I said above... go get a (good quality) non-Ford battery and get on with life...

 

[Jerome10]

A weak battery is the root of all evil, not money.

I think I've actually been told over the years at this point a weak 12V battery can even cause issues with transmissions not shifting as smoothly.

I know some cars have moved to a 48V system. I don't know how much of that has to do with fuel economy savings (start-stop, keeping A/C running, some regenerative ability) vs high electrical demands on new cars but I do wonder if this is why they seem to be proliferating. We might be at the limit for 12V batteries? RAM has had the e-Torque for years. I know BMW has gone to 48V on the 7 and 5 series I believe. Mercedes as well.

 

[Jerome10]

The large vehicle manufacturing company I work has a 5% cost reduction goal every year for the supply management group. Low bid wins. Low bid is only possible with less expensive materials for supplier components. Ford has to be buying the cheapest batteries possible. End sidebar.

Used to be in a similar boat. I'm not sure "low bid wins" applied for us necessarily but we had an annual cost-reduction goal just to be able to continue to be a supplier.

Here's the stupidity of this strategy, however...

We would make efficiency improvements, production changes, supplier changes etc (or at least have them in our back pockets). Instead of implementing the improvements immediately, and thus immediately seeing the benefit to the bottom line, the company would basically "sit" on them. That way when it came time to meet our annual cost goals they could just whip out one of the measures and bam "see, we've reached our cost goals for the year"

I get the incentive but if we did it I have to imagine the entire supply chain does it. Wasting, unnecessarily, time and money and energy etc just so at some future date you could meet a goal listed on a sheet of paper.

 

[KTM753]

I think I've actually been told over the years at this point a weak 12V battery can even cause issues with transmissions not shifting as smoothly.

If the controller has a lower supply voltage than intended, not surprising the output is unintented results...

I remember reading here somewhere that the transmission pump draws like 40+ amps out of the battery during start/stop engine off. With all these battery charging issues on short drives, that is enough of a reason to shutoff start stop for me.

 

[Snakebitten]

Buying a new battery will not be the fix in the long term. I think that because of Ford's battery charging strategy, the new battery will drop down to your existing battery level given time. A maintainer connected to the battery is, unfortunately, the way to go. As I see it. No matter how good a battery is, if not charged correctly or fully, it will not perform as expected over time.

Just my opinion.

I agree 99%

The 1%???

The conservative battery management strategy of my Powerboost is sufficient if/when I drive the truck enough for it to be sufficient.
But often I don't.

I'm still on my factory battery. Just days away from 2 years. And I assure you that I'm diligent in monitoring everything going on with the truck, as well as all the documentation here on the forum regarding.

Like you I do keep the truck on a Noco 5, or I will put the Clore on it from time to time for doing FDRS updates. But if I drive it several days in a row, the battery manages to stay at or above the static voltage of 12.3-12.4V

So I do believe that it is possible for a Powerboost to not have AGM voltage issues if it starts with a healthy battery and gets driven enough to never allow the battery to be injured. The problem is that's a narrow enough use-case that it doesn't cover the majority of trucks.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I agree 99%

The 1%???

The conservative battery management strategy of my Powerboost is sufficient if/when I drive the truck enough for it to be sufficient.
But often I don't.

I'm still on my factory battery. Just days away from 2 years. And I assure you that I'm diligent in monitoring everything going on with the truck, as well as all the documentation here on the forum regarding.

Like you I do keep the truck on a Noco 5, or I will put the Clore on it from time to time for doing FDRS updates. But if I drive it several days in a row, the battery manages to stay at or above the static voltage of 12.3-12.4V

So I do believe that it is possible for a Powerboost to not have AGM voltage issues if it starts with a healthy battery and gets driven enough to never allow the battery to be injured. The problem is that's a narrow enough use-case that it doesn't cover the majority of trucks.

Disagree. While I cannot for the life of me figure out Ford's charging strategy, as I see things the crux of the issue is the ability of the battery to operate properly.
I replaced my 12vdc battery with a catalog off-the-shelf F-150 Powerboost battery and just dropped it in. I wasn't smart enough then to realize something should be reset. My truck has now operated just fine and without an alert of any kind for a bit over two years. By what I thought were normal measures, this battery is being over charged... Thus my words above about Ford's charging strategy.

 

[Snakebitten]

Disagree. While I cannot for the life of me figure out Ford's charging strategy, as I see things the crux of the issue is the ability of the battery to operate properly.
I replaced my 12vdc battery with a catalog off-the-shelf F-150 Powerboost battery and just dropped it in. I wasn't smart enough then to realize something should be reset. My truck has now operated just fine and without an alert of any kind for a bit over two years. By what I thought were normal measures, this battery is being over charged... Thus my words above about Ford's charging strategy.

You put a healthy battery in the truck. And haven't had an issue since.
And you don't nurse it continuously with an external charging source. And you drive it often enough that the flawed Ford battery management is sufficient at keeping the battery SOC high enough that your truck is not suffering low voltage issues.

That's exactly what I described, but you disagree? ????

 

[Gros Ventre]

You put a healthy battery in the truck. And haven't had an issue since.
And you don't nurse it continuously with an external charging source. And you drive it often enough that the flawed Ford battery management is sufficient at keeping the battery SOC high enough that your truck is not suffering low voltage issues.

That's exactly what I described, but you disagree? ????

Well, I have given it opportunities... Last year I went 8 weeks with it being driven <3 miles in the morning in -20ºF and maybe 5 miles in the evening with temps up to a blazing -4ºF, weekdays & then parked over the weekend. Still not a peep out of it. BTW that evening mileage includes a stop for a Subway sandwich for dinner so there was stop & off during the run. This winter temps were around 15ºF for a 4 week similar stint. I've given it plenty of opportunity... Last fall I put a standalone voltmeter in and now that I can observe the system voltage in real time, my real objection to their programming is things like it'll jump to 15.2VDC right after start and stay there for hours and then, on occasion it'll go right to 12.8VDC and stay there. I haven't ID'd the pattern. That is nonsense by Ford. There is no rhyme or reason to the pattern I see and being at 15.2VDC for hours is overcharging. So, yes, I disagree. Ford's putting sick batteries in their trucks and their programming doesn't help things. Putting a charger on the battery is just a band-aid. In Wyoming when you start up the truck you'll often go 80 miles, but there is plenty of time to just sit parked and off. This week it was parked all week. Not a peep. Best defense I've got... ;-)

 

[Gros Ventre]

You put a healthy battery in the truck. And haven't had an issue since.
And you don't nurse it continuously with an external charging source. And you drive it often enough that the flawed Ford battery management is sufficient at keeping the battery SOC high enough that your truck is not suffering low voltage issues.

That's exactly what I described, but you disagree? ????

Well, I have given it opportunities... Last year I went 8 weeks with it being driven <3 miles in the morning in -20ºF and maybe 5 miles in the evening with temps up to a blazing -4ºF, weekdays & then parked over the weekend. Still not a peep out of it. BTW that evening mileage includes a stop for a Subway sandwich for dinner so there was stop & off during the run. This winter temps were around 15ºF for a 4 week similar stint. I've given it plenty of opportunity... Last fall I put a standalone voltmeter in and now that I can observe the system voltage in real time, my real objection to their programming is things like it'll jump to 15.2VDC right after start and stay there for hours and then, on occasion it'll go right to 12.8VDC and stay there. I haven't ID'd the pattern. That is nonsense by Ford. There is no rhyme or reason to the pattern I see and being at 15.2VDC for hours is overcharging. So, yes, I disagree. Ford's putting sick batteries in their trucks and their programming doesn't help things. Putting a charger on the battery is just a band-aid. In Wyoming when you start up the truck you'll often go 80 miles, but there is plenty of time to just sit parked and off. This week it was parked all week. Not a peep. Best defense I've got... ;-)

 

[Big Dog Daddy]

Buying a new battery will not be the fix in the long term. I think that because of Ford's battery charging strategy, the new battery will drop down to your existing battery level given time. A maintainer connected to the battery is, unfortunately, the way to go. As I see it. No matter how good a battery is, if not charged correctly or fully, it will not perform as expected over time.

Just my opinion.

I can't speak for the PB trucks, so this is coming from the view point of my ICE truck. Everything has went well since installing the H8 battery in my truck, all OTA's have flowed without aid of a charger. But still I only drive the truck about 12 miles a day on average. I can always tell when my soc has dropped below 75% as the ASS system ceases to function, especially in the morning after sitting over night on cold nights. I believe the net effect of the charging system was leaving the truck in an SOC deficit every day and cumulatively over a week or so allowing it to drop drop down due to the short trips, remote start, heated seats and so forth. A half hour drive would always restore the charge, and ASS would function again.
Both the PCM and BCM are in control of the charging system function on the ICE trucks. I believe that Ford has addressed the charging system issues / algorithms with the latest updates to these modules. Since updating these in February. ASS works every time as soon as the truck reaches operating temperature, no matter how long it was parked. On remote start the idle speed is now 1300 where it was previously 1200. You can also hear the alternator working much harder after a remote start warm up as you walk up to the truck. And lastly after cold start and during the first few minutes of driving, and just about until operating temperatures is reached the the truck maintains a lower gear than necessary in order to keep the engine RPM up, thus additional charge thru the warmup cycle.
Something has changed, exactly what, I don't know. But this has all happened since the pcm and bcm updates.

 

[scott011422]

Well, I have given it opportunities... Last year I went 8 weeks with it being driven <3 miles in the morning in -20ºF and maybe 5 miles in the evening with temps up to a blazing -4ºF, weekdays & then parked over the weekend. Still not a peep out of it. BTW that evening mileage includes a stop for a Subway sandwich for dinner so there was stop & off during the run. This winter temps were around 15ºF for a 4 week similar stint. I've given it plenty of opportunity... Last fall I put a standalone voltmeter in and now that I can observe the system voltage in real time, my real objection to their programming is things like it'll jump to 15.2VDC right after start and stay there for hours and then, on occasion it'll go right to 12.8VDC and stay there. I haven't ID'd the pattern. That is nonsense by Ford. There is no rhyme or reason to the pattern I see and being at 15.2VDC for hours is overcharging. So, yes, I disagree. Ford's putting sick batteries in their trucks and their programming doesn't help things. Putting a charger on the battery is just a band-aid. In Wyoming when you start up the truck you'll often go 80 miles, but there is plenty of time to just sit parked and off. This week it was parked all week. Not a peep. Best defense I've got... ;-)

What you keep missing, Is that often, There is little to no amperage behind that 15v. I've got literally 100's of recorded cycles where the truck spent the ENTIRE runtime above 15v and I didn't receive any charge. I will agree with you, As a pure charging comment, 15v is very high, but Ford isn't necessarily charging with it. As evident by the fan 5 thing. While voltage is higher with the fan on 5, the battery doesn't necessarily charge more or faster. I cant even say I notice an SOC change all things being equal.

Where in your experience, Which mind you isn't wrong, THIS battery, With THIS chemistry, charging like THIS does THIS is how things have been forever, and still is. Thats basic battery charging theory. However, Thats not what Ford is doing for whatever reason.

Do I agree with you that in the past did Ford possibly have a bad batch of batteries? Probaby. That coupled with the long lot stays when they couldn't get parts hurts even more. Since Ford says with an active truck you get a month before no start due to battery drain.But to say that still, 3 years later, people are still suffering from a bad batch of batteries, No. Just No. Ford will sell in upwards of 4 MILLION ICE 2021+ F150's by the end of the year. We will say conservatively, 25 batteries per layer (This figure is high as no packaging was included on a 48x48 pallet). Say 4 layers. (Prolly would only have been 2 or 3) So thats 100 batteries per skid. Now the standard max per semi trailer is 50 skids. Thats 800 semis of batteries. So we are talking THOUSANDS of batches of batteries. While its easy to say that the Ford battery is probably inferior to most if not all name brand aftermarket batteries, Its not a battery issue. not in 2022's or 2023's. Obviously there will be outlier with bad batteries, Its mass production, shit happens.

Just no, Not a battery issue. Can a different battery setup, chemistry, ect solve the problem? Absolutely. Will this work for everyone, No.

Ford could fix this right now, with a simple OTA. It aggravates me to no end that i'm about to put solar on my truck to keep this battery healthy when a free OTA would fix this permanently.

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