EPA changes and rule rollbacks

[astro_fusion]

CARB impacts everyone in every industry, some good info on how they have been out of control and what they aren't doing with all their "tax" revenues and CO2 credits. Just more govt. funded fraud that is now in the spotlight.

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[Buyer2021]

If it were ever truly about the environment, we'd have 100s of the latest reactor designs everywhere. Instead we have mostly gen 1 reactors with some gen 2 sprinkled about while china is licensing our tech to build the latest models (well technically to prevent their french designs from melting down) which is dumb because the US has no competition in advanced reactor design and china wants as much tech for their military as possible.

That's a straw man fallacy insofar as EPA regulations. The EPA's only role specific to nuclear power industry regulation has been related to air emissions of radioactive particles and downstream disposal of radioactive wastes (e.g. spent fuels) from reactors. The former hasn't discouraged innovation in reactor design / implementation and the latter has, if anything, indirectly encouraged more efficient (innovative) reactor designs and re-use of spent fuels. And both of the EPA's roles in this regard bear directly on protection of human health and the environment.

Insofar as 'stifling' nuclear power industry regulations, your beef is with the NRC and DOE, not the EPA.

 

[Graygoose2021]

Ahhh, the old days...before too much EPA

 

[v8440]

I can read, 2nd A is clear and the NFA is 100% illegal!

Didn't mean to imply you can't read.

 

[hatallica]

Certainly more than two sides to the issue. In my current vocation, the EPA plays a measured role, monitoring trends. I get along with them quite well. Certain states are choosing to abdicate legislative authority to agencies who need to show that they are "doing something" to support greenhouse goals. They are generally not taking a holistic view. Consumers will incur higher utility prices without truly advancing overall climate goals.

It is not all bleak, though. States are taking a more reasonable approach to PFAS (per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances, or "forever chemicals"). The trend seems to be towards allowing them where they are both essential and irreplaceable. So, critical applications are not impacted, but we remove superfluous uses. Getting them out of food packaging? I can support that.

 

[Davexxxx]

Lets see how far they roll things back.

Here is what Reuters reported.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainabil...ider-biden-clean-power-plant-rule-2025-03-12/

And a lot of this seems to be aimed at coal.

I got a secret for ya. Automation killed more coal jobs than any EPA reg and expanded natural gas production killed the rest.

Also, there are now more jobs in he solar industry than coal.

 

[HammaMan]

That's a straw man fallacy insofar as EPA regulations. The EPA's only role specific to nuclear power industry regulation has been related to air emissions of radioactive particles and downstream disposal of radioactive wastes (e.g. spent fuels) from reactors. The former hasn't discouraged innovation in reactor design and the latter has, if anything, indirectly encouraged more efficient (innovative) reactor designs and re-use of spent fuels. And both bear directly on human health and the environment.

Insofar as 'stifling' nuclear power industry regulations, your beef is with the NRC and DOE, not the EPA.

I think you missed the forest for all the trees. The EPA is but one tentacle of a beast our founders warned us about would come. The EPA is a block on the pyramid, not a pyramid unto itself. I don't just want 85% of the EPA gutted, I wan't 85% of the bureaucrats gutted. I want the dept of agriculture moved to somewhere that has agriculture. I want every roadblock, hurdle, hole, snare, trap put in place to make rebuilding the beast that is the current USG a multi-decadal affair that could be undone by just 1 president.

Buildings / land sold, possibly demolished. Any agency that's "required" should be placed in an area where it serves. USG owns a lot of land in NV -- let's place the BLM right smack in the middle of nowheresville NV. Move USCBP / ICE down to Texas, etc...

 

[HammaMan]

Also, on the solar and battery front, china has been doing the heavy lifting in this sector because they import half of their energy and half of all goods they need to make products. They're going mad crazy in all energy sectors because they're trying to prevent substantial harm to their energy needs when they make a move on TW. They're the leader in all 'new energy production' because they're SOL when the blockade begins. They're stockpiling all sorts of things while building massive amounts of implements of war. They built 30 large warships last year. China will be making a move on TW and then they're going to invade as much of the first island chain as they can. They need resources. They import most of their food and are currently fishing the oceans dry all over the globe.

Everything going on is to remove china from the supply equation. Once you view everything from this perspective, it all makes sense. If china moves on JPs and SKs ship building industry, overnight they have 80% of global ship building capacity. China is the ultimate goal of foreign policy right now. There's a clear grand plan at play because it's VERY clear the way things are going. They're deeply over leveraged and clearly building up very unique barges that literally only have one purpose and that's invasion. Their next move is a wartime economy and they're going to rival the US ala WW2. Fortunately they're still wholly a brown water navy but that's still bad news for their neighbors. Their activity around AU recently indicates that's their 'energy' play. Russia is the easy target, but they have nukes.

They're going to island hop all the way to AU taking everything they need along the way. They hope their lack of exports to the US will be able to break us, and right now, it can. Apple isn't spending 1/2 a trillion to onshore manufacturing in the US because it's the 'right' thing to do, it's the only logical thing to do.

Wake up folks, the future is going to happen if you believe/want it to or not. It's unfortunate we have to sour on some allies for the short term, EU rearmament isn't about russia. We're trying to woo russia for our vast input needs, a lot of which china has intentionally monopolized using state $ to subsidize the right industries to bankrupt US and allied nation's capability. They control 90% of rare earths right now and russia has A LOT of them as do we. W/ out tariffs we can't make domestic industry ramp up again. It's a bit of protectionism, but also the long-term survival of the nation and our allies. Understand the grand plan and make moves to survive the short term pain. It's for a much larger long-term gain.

 

[Buyer2021]

Recognizing that none of this banter will sway either of us to the other's opinion ....

I think you missed the forest for all the trees. .....

I think the approach you espouse, and that currently being hastily undertaken by your cohorts, will decimate a forest where a more considered thinning of diseased trees is appropriate and would be more beneficial in the long run.

Differences of opinion ....

 

[HammaMan]

When excess has been the norm, drastic reductions is the natural correction. Solve problems as they arise, else you have an overly excessive nanny state. Let's keep this place the land of the free. Jump across the pond if you want industry strangling stagnation.

Even with the cuts / rollbacks, we're still the cleanest and most efficient in manufacturing. Offshoring to high pollution countries is hiding the issue, not rectifying it.

 

[eharri3]

PA has a Department of Environmental Protection. Most other states likely have something similar than can put fourth regs specific to environmental concerns in that state that are suited to balance safety and the health of the business and industrial environment. It's not like environmental regulation capabilities die if the EPA is rolling things back. IT simply means your state no longer gets to pass the buck to the feds and has to step up and shoulder the political burden of passing most of the environmental laws and regulations that make everyone's life more expensive and complicated. If they don't strike a proper balance the community is right there to confront them and let them know.

This is a good thing. It puts more power with Government entities closer to you, where those who govern you more directly feel the impacts of their decisions and you can more easily confront them and un-seat them if you're unhappy. This is what we want, Not a platoon of people we never see hiding in a conference room several states away.

Government in this country was originally intended to be set up so people who make the most impactful decisions in your life would be members of your community. Good to be headed back that way.

 

[HammaMan]

States can regulate within themselves to their own competitive disadvantage. Once it crosses state lines the commerce clause kicks in and ties their hands (for better or worse). While we're supposed to be practicing federalism, SCOTUS and some poor rulings has given the feds more power than the constitution does despite the 10th's clear language.

Overall I believe it'll make the US more competitive while reducing federal bureaucracy. If states want to handicap business and push it elsewhere, businesses are happy to exit. If the policy starts impacting residents w/ higher costs, they too can migrate. That is what we're supposed to be after all, 50 little democracies all experimenting with what works best for them. That has always been one of greatest strengths but as the federal beast grows, it's really tamped down our experiment. It was a grievous error in putting the senate into the hands of popular vote. It really took away the state's contribution to the system whereby they chose their representatives while The People's was the house.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I was a truck salesperson in CA when the first diesel emissions were coming out, just a kid, and I was mouthing off about how stupid the emissions were to an old redneck trucker who I presumed would agree completely.

He then proceeded to tell me horrifying stories of how bad the air was in CA when he was growing up. Children coughing up brown goop, seemingly healthy people have respiratory distress when walking outside their home and passing as a result, at like 55. Eyes burning. On and on.

I think those of us that have had the privilege of growing up under Nixon's EPA think that there really isn't a problem. But in reality, the EPA has saved 10s of millions of American lives.

Going backwards, is actually pretty insane and absolutely will result in increased pollution deaths for the benefit of corporations.

I also can't imagine why if we have the choice to let China destroy their natural wonders to get heavy metals and whatever else we need, why the heck any American would want to do that here.

 

[HammaMan]

I grew up in socal and you could see the smog going into the city. The issue isn't the 60/70s regs, it's the post 2008 ones. Modern engines are far cleaner ignoring the cats / DPFs entirely. The govt orders their diesels without DPFs/EGRs. That's why their surplus 250s and such aren't legal to register due to deleting the troublesome DPFS/EGRs (factory deleted in-fact).

Locking in T4 new is fine, however there should be no issue deleting those parts when they fail. We also don't need GPFs. Electrification is going to continue because it makes logical sense. Forcing it isn't the way. I know a lot of gearheads that have an EV for the around town stuff. They're really cheap second hand with no maint. Just get in and let er rip. EVs are stupid cheap to own, no maint, charging at home is cheap cheap. Even better if you toss up some panels to feed it. Perfect apocalypse vehicle so long as it's not caused by a volcano or nuclear winter.

Public awareness alone is enough to drive corporations to be more conscious about their decisions. We're in the information age and if they're doing something the local community doesn't like, they'll shut them down. They've gone way too far however. We need loads of cheap energy w/out g00berment trying to control the market -- all it's done is drive up the cost of energy. They need to promote distributed grid infrastructure as in businesses and homes using hybrid inverters combined with LFP batts. This could be done by forcing electric companies to buy anyone's power during peak loads at the same rate it'd cost them to produce it.

If the customer base is providing grid stiffening means at their own cost, they should be able to get fair market value for their energy when its delivered back to the utility. This is one thing Elon should be working on is a unified distributed microgrid piece of software for the govt to then require utilities to implement. Basically anyone with hybrid inverters that can backfeed the grid should be able to 'opt-in' to remote grid control so that instead of energy companies installing massive battery arrays, customers can build their own backup systems at their POP to use on failure or grid stiffening. With a distributed microgrid system, we could get significantly more power out of our current infrastructure if it's able maintain a stable continuous flow throughout the day vs having to deal with peak summer loading coming from power plants.

Current ai could plan the distribution rather easily by utilizing the fact that power can flow both directions and not just a top down approach. That's the type of focus the feds should be handling. This level of approach could see various parts of the grid separated for whatever reason while the broken 'microgrid' made up of customers can still operate independently. Every branch of the electrical utility has fuses at just about every corner. In some locations there's devices that go in place of the fuses called 'auto reclosers' that can open/close the 10s of thousands of forks of the grid. These are used to minimize the impact of a tree or similar falling on a line so that the substation doesn't have to shut down large sections (or blow the fuse on that little section).

If I could sell my ~3.5 cent/kWh overnight power back to my poco at their on-peak rates of 24 cents, I'd install 200kWh worth of batteries to feed them as much power as they could eat.

 

[JohnMcClane]

When excess has been the norm, drastic reductions is the natural correction. Solve problems as they arise, else you have an overly excessive nanny state. Let's keep this place the land of the free. Jump across the pond if you want industry strangling stagnation.

Even with the cuts / rollbacks, we're still the cleanest and most efficient in manufacturing. Offshoring to high pollution countries is hiding the issue, not rectifying it.

Hasn't cutting and hacking been the norm since the guy who was President when the the first Die Hard was released?

The only thing that been "trickling down" has been believers chins.

I'm sad to see so much political discourse in here, it's not why we're here.

If you really want to cut it to the ground, you want to eliminate the USDA established by Lincoln in 1862? I'm hoping you're not advocating for rolling back some of his other policies as I would have to sincerely question your morality.

The problem isn't the bureaucrats, it's the autocrats who control them. Afraid of the power they wield, yet, not taking issue with someone who wasn't elected seemingly walking into the White House and taking an axe to them is wild.

I do agree much of the Federal Government could use some better oversight by namely it's citizens, but sadly, the citizens keep electing the same people and expecting different results...

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