Transfer Switch Gameplan - Thoughts?

[HammaMan]

You can do whatever you want, but being a Master Electrician with close to 40 years of experience recommend that you don’t do this and install the correct equipment to make this work

So we go back to the original question. What chain of events that present a hazard do you base this position off of?

I see it as 1) deferring to what you've been instructed to do, or 2) you're seeing a hazard that you're failing to share.

I will continue to ask this question not to be redundant, but because I want to know what hazard possibilities arise out of the most skewed swiss cheese model. When fed by utility, the neutral floating is big danger. The truck and its GFI protections don't share these sets of risk factors. Furthermore if the truck does become earthed, GFI kicks in. So take as much time as you need, utilizing whatever resources you have available to illustrate what conditions must align to present a hazard. Thanks

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[Kodiak]

Bummer. I just had the electrician swap out my old subpanel (transfer switch) for a new Generac 6852 and it did not work.

Everything in the house is working as it should but if I switch to Gernerator the trucks GFCI trips.

We hooked it up with none of the 8 breakers active and the truck works fine. Once we flip anyone of the 8 breakers it trips. We tried each one, one at a time. Truck is in Generator Mode with no circuits and as soon as one get flipped to on, the GFCI on the truck trips.

They went over everything and said they wired it as per the Generac instructions but no good.

The main guy is coming back on Monday to look over everything. Anyone have any ideas or directions I can go with the setup I have. Any ideas to try out? Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[GIjoe]

Bummer. I just had the electrician swap out my old subpanel (transfer switch) for a new Generac 6852 and it did not work.

Everything in the house is working as it should but if I switch to Gernerator the trucks GFCI trips.

We hooked it up with none of the 8 breakers active and the truck works fine. Once we flip anyone of the 8 breakers it trips. We tried each one, one at a time. Truck is in Generator Mode with no circuits and as soon as one get flipped to on, the GFCI on the truck trips.

They went over everything and said they wired it as per the Generac instructions but no good.

The main guy is coming back on Monday to look over everything. Anyone have any ideas or directions I can go with the setup I have. Any ideas to try out? Thanks in advance for any replies.

Yes- read this whole thread or go back a page where one poster summarized the issues

 

[Yves]

Bummer. I just had the electrician swap out my old subpanel (transfer switch) for a new Generac 6852 and it did not work.

Everything in the house is working as it should but if I switch to Gernerator the trucks GFCI trips.

We hooked it up with none of the 8 breakers active and the truck works fine. Once we flip anyone of the 8 breakers it trips. We tried each one, one at a time. Truck is in Generator Mode with no circuits and as soon as one get flipped to on, the GFCI on the truck trips.

They went over everything and said they wired it as per the Generac instructions but no good.

The main guy is coming back on Monday to look over everything. Anyone have any ideas or directions I can go with the setup I have. Any ideas to try out? Thanks in advance for any replies.

It sucks for sure. It should work as several on this forum are using it without problems. I know my Eaton panel CPL112G3 can be used with generator that have bonded neutral or un-bonded neutral. I think there is a small difference in the install.

 

[Yves]

Bummer. I just had the electrician swap out my old subpanel (transfer switch) for a new Generac 6852 and it did not work.

Everything in the house is working as it should but if I switch to Gernerator the trucks GFCI trips.

We hooked it up with none of the 8 breakers active and the truck works fine. Once we flip anyone of the 8 breakers it trips. We tried each one, one at a time. Truck is in Generator Mode with no circuits and as soon as one get flipped to on, the GFCI on the truck trips.

They went over everything and said they wired it as per the Generac instructions but no good.

The main guy is coming back on Monday to look over everything. Anyone have any ideas or directions I can go with the setup I have. Any ideas to try out? Thanks in advance for any replies.

One thing I could think of is, the person did not move all the circuits properly. All the neutrals of the relocated circuits have to be relocated to your Generac panel.

 

[Kodiak]

One thing I could think of is, the person did not move all the circuits properly. All the neutrals of the relocated circuits have to be relocated to your Generac panel.

Thanks, I did have him move 2 new circuits over. I had 6 in the Eaton but had room for 8 in the Generac. I made note of this and will show it to the guy when he comes back.

 

[Yves]

Thanks, I did have him move 2 new circuits over. I had 6 in the Eaton but had room for 8 in the Generac. I made note of this and will show it to the guy when he comes back.

I don't know the type of breaker that you used in the Generac but in my Eaton I can put either 6 regular breakers (6x circuits) or 6x twin breakers which are 12 different circuits.

 

[DMuiser]

So we go back to the original question. What chain of events that present a hazard do you base this position off of?

I see it as 1) deferring to what you've been instructed to do, or 2) you're seeing a hazard that you're failing to share.

I will continue to ask this question not to be redundant, but because I want to know what hazard possibilities arise out of the most skewed swiss cheese model. When fed by utility, the neutral floating is big danger. The truck and its GFI protections don't share these sets of risk factors. Furthermore if the truck does become earthed, GFI kicks in. So take as much time as you need, utilizing whatever resources you have available to illustrate what conditions must align to present a hazard. Thanks

1) All of this is over my head and using a dogbone interests me but according to electricians on here it is “unsafe”. I would like to know exactly what is unsafe about it so I can make an informed decision weather or not to go down that route. Only Answer I read so far is that the dog one might get used for something else that it shouldn’t with the ground cut.

2) I already have a generlink which allows me to power whole panel of my house, do we think this dogbone technique would work with it? Unfortunately cannot test a generlink until the power goes out

 

[Kodiak]

I don't know the type of breaker that you used in the Generac but in my Eaton I can put either 6 regular breakers (6x circuits) or 6x twin breakers which are 12 different circuits.

The Generac came with 6 Siemans breakers (15 & 20) and it had one double breaker (30) in it. We took out the double breaker and added in the 2 new Siemans breakers. That gave us 8 single breakers total. A mix of 15s and 20s. The Generac instructions said it could take 8 or 10 but I do not know how it could get to 10.

With that said I made sure to go buy the exact breaker (Siemans) that the Generac came with.

 

[SouthernGuy]

I do not know how it could get to 10

You take out a single breaker and put in a tandem breaker. It turns one slot into 2 breakers. I used a couple of these to have 10 circuits in my Generac transfer switch.

 

[Hullguy]

So we go back to the original question. What chain of events that present a hazard do you base this position off of?

I see it as 1) deferring to what you've been instructed to do, or 2) you're seeing a hazard that you're failing to share.

I will continue to ask this question not to be redundant, but because I want to know what hazard possibilities arise out of the most skewed swiss cheese model. When fed by utility, the neutral floating is big danger. The truck and its GFI protections don't share these sets of risk factors. Furthermore if the truck does become earthed, GFI kicks in. So take as much time as you need, utilizing whatever resources you have available to illustrate what conditions must align to present a hazard. Thanks

With the ground removed from the truck the normal power grounding wires can become alive. It won’t trip anything until the circuit is complete. Which could be A person completing the circuit. It should trip the gfi.
my question for you is why take a shortcut when the equipment to make the truck as safe as possible and is proscribed by the National Electrical Code is available at a reasonable price. Most states adhere to the NEC, but some, like my own, have a more stringent set of standards, based on the NEC. To protect life and property. It’s not a set of standards you only comply with when you feel like it.
When I do an electrical job I am responsible for the job for my whole life. I will never advocate to take a shortcut outside of the NEC.

 

[Yves]

1) All of this is over my head and using a dogbone interests me but according to electricians on here it is “unsafe”. I would like to know exactly what is unsafe about it so I can make an informed decision weather or not to go down that route. Only Answer I read so far is that the dog one might get used for something else that it shouldn’t with the ground cut.

2) I already have a generlink which allows me to power whole panel of my house, do we think this dogbone technique would work with it? Unfortunately cannot test a generlink until the power goes out

1)https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/manuals/generac-b156120beb66561e5ab2f46e3773a9e6.pdf This is the link for the Generac panel not Generlink. If you look into it, never they say to lift a ground or float it. At the opposite they mention to ensure everything is connected properly. Now if something was to happen(someone get electrified, burn your house, damage some of your equipment) because you choose the route of lifting the ground, how would you feel? I just try to imagine the defense of anyone going that route... "well mr. the judge I red it on the internet it was OK and safe to do it".

2) You could turn off your main breaker to run the test.

 

[Davexxxx]

When I do an electrical job I am responsible for the job for my whole life. I will never advocate to take a shortcut outside of the NEC.

This is a perfectly reasonable position for any licensed professional. I can relate.

However, it doesn't preclude you from discussing pros and cons of alternatives, short of offering advice, on tasks you aren't paid to do.

~This is better and here is why. That would work too but at your own risk and be aware of X, X, and X possibilities.~ carries no liability, if you haven't been paid for it.

If I was building new, or even had a place where it could be reasonably easy to do, I'd go the full transfer switch route but neither is true for me. Service panel at one end, truck on the other and a full length finished basement ceiling in between.

So, I need a workaround.

One of course, is extension cords strung everywhere to individual appliances, which carry their own risks.

What I have, is one switched, dedicated (nothing else on it) 20a receptacle circuit, within reach of the truck. It has a 20A rated receptacle in it and is served by an existing sub panel in the basement. It's breaker, is of the GFI type.

I made my own "dogbone" with 10 ga wire, leaving the ground and L2, disconnected at the truck end and connected it through a 20A rated 10ga cord. I used the 30a on the truck, in an effort to avoid the suicide cord situation, counting on the house breaker to limit overdraw.

Turned the power off at the main and the main and all other circuits at the sub panel (which are not supposed to be NG bonded). Truck still tripped instantly when the switch was energized.

What I'll try next, is replace the GFI breaker with a standard, non GFI breaker. Don't get lost in the codes on that part. My area doesn't require them on existing structures. I had the previous owner install it as a condition of the sale. There is no inspection here of existing structures.

I respect your experience and license but seeing the "truck as the utility" is a compelling argument. The truck is protected internally and the house has it's own ground.

If the plug at the truck is in place, before and after generator mode is engaged, where is the risk?

 

[Kodiak]

You take out a single breaker and put in a tandem breaker. It turns one slot into 2 breakers. I used a couple of these to have 10 circuits in my Generac transfer switch.

HA! Thanks for the picture. I did know this was even a thing.

 

[Hullguy]

This is a perfectly reasonable position for any licensed professional. I can relate.

However, it doesn't preclude you from discussing pros and cons of alternatives, short of offering advice, on tasks you aren't paid to do.

~This is better and here is why. That would work too but at your own risk and be aware of X, X, and X possibilities.~ carries no liability, if you haven't been paid for it.

If I was building new, or even had a place where it could be reasonably easy to do, I'd go the full transfer switch route but neither is true for me. Service panel at one end, truck on the other and a full length finished basement ceiling in between.

So, I need a workaround.

One of course, is extension cords strung everywhere to individual appliances, which carry their own risks.

What I have, is one switched, dedicated (nothing else on it) 20a receptacle circuit, within reach of the truck. It has a 20A rated receptacle in it and is served by an existing sub panel in the basement. It's breaker, is of the GFI type.

I made my own "dogbone" with 10 ga wire, leaving the ground and L2, disconnected at the truck end and connected it through a 20A rated 10ga cord. I used the 30a on the truck, in an effort to avoid the suicide cord situation, counting on the house breaker to limit overdraw.

Turned the power off at the main and the main and all other circuits at the sub panel (which are not supposed to be NG bonded). Truck still tripped instantly when the switch was energized.

What I'll try next, is replace the GFI breaker with a standard, non GFI breaker. Don't get lost in the codes on that part. My area doesn't require them on existing structures. I had the previous owner install it as a condition of the sale. There is no inspection here of existing structures.

I respect your experience and license but seeing the "truck as the utility" is a compelling argument. The truck is protected internally and the house has it's own ground.

If the plug at the truck is in place, before and after generator mode is engaged, where is the risk?
[/QUOTE
There’s no ground!

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