New over the top chinese PHEV

[HammaMan]

Price levels are 45/50/$55k for the 3 trims. Top trim ~850hp PHEV, 50kWh batt, 650 mile highway range (batt + fuel tank), 3C charging w/ 120 highway miles in electric only. At least 9 cameras in it (didn't really dive into the technicals on it) -- top trim has L3 ADAS powered by NVIDIA w/ HD aka 4D radar and LIDAR.
HUD has blindspot cameras, twin 36" 6k screens. All 3 rows have heated/cooled/massage seats. Based on a volvo platform w/ interior designed in sweden (chinese own volvo now).
For the same price as an explorer ST -- bonkers. Currently only a 100% tariff on chinese vehicles imported to the US so I don't think we'll see one anytime soon, though they did take a dozen different vehicles to Alaska a couple weeks back for testing.

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[UGADawg96]

And the build quality and reliability is probably better than my 2025 Explorer ST.

 

[Kaboom]

I like it!

 

[tsigwing]

Good luck getting that serviced.

 

[Larrymoe]

Slavery makes stuff really cheap.

 

[HammaMan]

Slavery makes stuff really cheap.

10-20% of a vehicle's cost is labor depending on country of origin. Tesla's labor costs are below 10% and they have some the largest margins in the industry. Hollow, but easily said point -- unfortunately it's just not true.

 

[hatallica]

10-20% of a vehicle's cost is labor depending on country of origin. Tesla's labor costs are below 10% and they have some the largest margins in the industry. Hollow, but easily said point -- unfortunately it's just not true.

I am curious what scope this considers. Labor in vehicle assembly? Production of each component and system that occurs outside of the factory?

I frequently see organizations refer to "labor costs" as final assembly. If a third party delivers a component or subsystem, then it is a different category. That is the nature of my curiosity.

 

[HammaMan]

I am curious what scope this considers. Labor in vehicle assembly? Production of each component and system that occurs outside of the factory?

I frequently see organizations refer to "labor costs" as final assembly. If a third party delivers a component or subsystem, then it is a different category. That is the nature of my curiosity.

With a lot of parts coming out of china and mexico with mexico's labor costs being less than chinas, does it really move the needle at all?

Maybe this is why the White House muppet added tariff to protect his new buddy.

Top selling IMPORTED vehicles

• Toyota Corolla - Mexico/Japan
• Toyota Camry - Japan (some models)
• Nissan Rogue - Japan/South Korea
• Toyota Highlander - Japan (some models)
• Nissan Sentra - Mexico
• Toyota Tacoma - Mexico
• Kia Sportage - South Korea
• Hyundai Tucson - South Korea
• Kia Forte - South Korea/Mexico
• Hyundai Elantra - South Korea
• Mazda CX-5 - Japan
• Subaru Outback - Japan
• Subaru Forester - Japan
• Subaru Crosstrek - Japan
• Volkswagen Tiguan - Mexico/Germany
• BMW X3 - South Africa
• Mercedes-Benz GLC - Germany
• Audi Q5 - Mexico
• BMW X5 - Germany (some models)
• Lexus RX - Japan/Canada
• Hyundai Santa Fe - South Korea
• Kia Sorento - South Korea
• Volkswagen Atlas - Germany (some models)
• Nissan Altima - Japan (some models)
• Mazda CX-30 - Mexico/Japan
• Toyota 4Runner - Japan
• Lexus NX - Japan
• Mercedes-Benz C-Class - Germany/South Africa
• BMW 3 Series - Germany
• Audi A4 - Germany

VS top selling US made vehicles

• Ford F-150 - Assembled in Dearborn, MI, and Claycomo, MO (460,915 units sold)
• Chevrolet Silverado 1500 - Assembled in Fort Wayne, IN, and Flint, MI (410,307 units)
• Tesla Model Y - Assembled in Fremont, CA, and Austin, TX (372,613 units)
• Toyota RAV4 - Assembled in Georgetown, KY (475,193 units)
• Honda CR-V - Assembled in Greensburg, IN, and East Liberty, OH (402,791 units)
• Ram 1500 - Assembled in Sterling Heights, MI (332,135 units)
• Toyota Camry - Assembled in Georgetown, KY (309,875 units)
• Jeep Grand Cherokee - Assembled in Detroit, MI (215,294 units)
• Chevrolet Equinox - Assembled in Spring Hill, TN (208,113 units)
• Ford Explorer - Assembled in Chicago, IL (198,135 units)

Totally to benefit 1 company

 

[Larrymoe]

10-20% of a vehicle's cost is labor depending on country of origin. Tesla's labor costs are below 10% and they have some the largest margins in the industry. Hollow, but easily said point -- unfortunately it's just not true.

Sure. I didn't mention Tesla at all, nor do I give a shit about them.

Chinas always going to be able to sell stuff cheaper because they literally have a captive workforce.

 

[HammaMan]

Sure. I didn't mention Tesla at all, nor do I give a shit about them.

Chinas always going to be able to sell stuff cheaper because they literally have a captive workforce.

While they do have sectors w/ such practices, it's a country of 1.2bil and their auto plants are both highly automated and using skilled labor. Labor costs in MX are LOWER than china. I'll put it into numbers for you
Mexico hourly auto manufacturing compensation = $4-6/hr.
China hourly auto manufacturing compensation = $6-8/hr
Why do you think US companies moved to MX? Cheaper labor (though they're less productive than china) and it's closer resulting in less shipping costs.

 

[UGADawg96]

The 2002 accord I had was built in MX and was probably the most reliable vehicle I've owned in 35 years of driving.

 

[HammaMan]

The 2002 accord I had was built in MX and was probably the most reliable vehicle I've owned in 35 years of driving.

That's more of a testament to the engineering and process validation vs final assembly. It was engineered to be a quality product and had reliable partners providing parts and subsystems. One of the more ironic parts about that is the market share in JP that chinese EVs are now taking -- even the JP govt buys chinese EVs

 

[UGADawg96]

That's more of a testament to the engineering and process validation vs final assembly. It was engineered to be a quality product and had reliable partners providing parts and subsystems. One of the more ironic parts about that is the market share in JP that chinese EVs are now taking -- even the JP govt buys chinese EVs

I've had four Honda's and they've all been rock solid. Was gonna get a Pilot, but went for the Explorer ST since I wanted something that could get a bit unleashed. And wasn't ready to go electric. I know you and Bruce love your machs. Ford doesn't come close to Honda reliability from my experience. Honda's are basically boring appliances. Wish someone made an affordable and reliable fun large SUV.

 

[Goldeneye36]

I've had four Honda's and they've all been rock solid. Was gonna get a Pilot, but went for the Explorer ST since I wanted something that could get a bit unleashed. And wasn't ready to go electric. I know you and Bruce love your machs. Ford doesn't come close to Honda reliability from my experience. Honda's are basically boring appliances. Wish someone made an affordable and reliable fun large SUV.

Reminds of the saying among people who build cars: you can have something fast, reliable, and cheap - but only 2 out of 3.

 

[hatallica]

With a lot of parts coming out of china and mexico with mexico's labor costs being less than chinas, does it really move the needle at all?

I don't know. That was my question.
"Coming out of China" is a broad category. Most US companies are inclined to avoid slave labor or other violations of human rights throughout their supply chain. That adds costs that may or may not be reflected inside the CCP.

Again, asking questions. I don't have damning accusations.

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