Installed Transfer Switch in House

[HammaMan]

...

Following gross negligence's view regarding discrete grounds would be incorrect. He failed to listen and I hope he's blessed with countless nuisance trips due to failing to understand how current will flow between the ground rods with an imbalance on the individual 120v legs depending on the resistance between the ground rods. He can't interact with my posts so I can flick dirt his way

If you have a ufer ground and drive a ground rod next to it connected to the truck, as little as a couple hundred watts will trip the truck while providing zero benefit. Earthed grounding is primarily for lightning protection in homes. It's not a magic safety wand. The truck may be monitoring more parameters than a typical GFI breaker given it's completely electronically controlled and can see if something is plugged in (some times falsely), which means its looking at resistance values above what you'd typically see with your average GFI breaker. There are no benefits to earthing the truck.

It's safer to run the ground in the same wire bundle to the power box where it's simply left covered with a wire nut, than it is to connect it to a discrete earthed ground rod.

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[Snooker_ML]

This thread has been a great help to me. Thanks! Do it right and don't cut corners. A neutral switching transfer switch is the only truly safe answer.
But here is what I've found out about one this will work for your "whole house" main panel. I hope it helps! A couple of you electrical experts please comment...




This seems to be a great solution for a whole house transfer switch, but $$.

This is a 3 pole non-fused disconnect switch used as a transfer switch. 3 poles means it includes neutral, and it is the first location past the meter so on the line side of the neutral switch you would bond to ground, but on the generator side you would NOT bond the neutral to ground. Voila! The generator side still has the ground wire connected through to the earth ground rod. You would then make your main service panel a subpanel, meaning you would remove the neutral bond to ground because it is done upstream in this new switch. Your main service panel would also have to segregate all the neutrals separately from the grounds (if they aren't already).

This way you could have all of your circuits in your house available for use as needed (and don't have to deal with multiple circuits sharing one neutral.

Notice that this is a double pole switch with an OFF position, so there is no need for complications for sequencing the neutral to avoid a 240v intermittent issue on a 120v leg, like the Reliance X series was trying to fix. (Apparently in 2022 Reliance discontinued the X series (XRC, XRH, XRK) I read it was due to a change in how Siemens changed some of their solutions so the X would no longer work).

I've found a few similar 3 pole double throw switches. THEY ARE PRICEY!
Here are some part numbers for a 200A service, 240v:
Siemens DTNF324 - most sell for $2000 but one place is $1500
Square D: DTU324NRB
Eaton DT324UGK (Cutler Hammer)
ABB TC35324R
GE TC35324

Do your own research, I'm not an electrician and I'm still investigating which solution to go with, and the NEC local code ramifications of this solution in the YouTube, in my area. I'll probably end up with a Generac 6852 series.

In all this hyper focus on the "EE doesn't ground boxes" distraction -- Can we revisit this other idea ??

I posted the above and nobody really said PEEP.
For the record - does this community think the EX$PEN$IVE but sweet 3 pole double throw Siemens disconnect/transfer switch would be a completely code compliant solution? The idea is that: At the SE, only bonding the neutral to ground on the line side, not the generator side?

I do (again not an electrician)...

... I'm just asking: As you understand this video, do you think it looks workable?

 

[Gros Ventre]

My objection to this is that I purchased my Powerboost with the 7.2kW generator in anticipation of plugging it into my house as is. I feel Ford mislead buyers because their setup blocks using it that way because of a simple wiring/software issue. I don't believe I should have to spend loads of money to make my house fit the truck.

 

[Snakebitten]

I have never seen Ford market or imply that a Powerboost was for powering a home, but rather a job site or an Airstream.

Now the Lightning?
Oh heck yeah! They show it powering a mansion.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I have never seen Ford market or imply that a Powerboost was for powering a home, but rather a job site or an Airstream.

Now the Lightning?
Oh heck yeah! They show it powering a mansion.

Thank you for defending Ford. It is a reasonable conclusion that a generator able to power a worksite could power a home. You're being anapologist for the big bucks...

 

[Snakebitten]

Yes, I am

I often find myself in such a situation.

I have a 750 page owners manual
A 15,000 page service manual
And 5000 page wiring manual

All for the Powerboost

Nothing even hinting at how to connect ProPower onboard to a house.

But the Lightning, Ford addresses it specifically.

It's an obvious contrast.

I'm more than willing to drag Ford for lots of things. Much of it documented here on this forum.

But not this.
The Powerboost ProPower 7.2KW generator can do SO MANY remarkable things. Safely and reliably.

Turns out the one thing that's not so easy to use it for isn't something Ford designed it for. Or at least it appears to be that way.

 

[Gros Ventre]

By the way, Ford made a big deal of these trucks supplying homes during the Texas Ice Storm a few years ago. They allowed dealers to send new trucks out to power homes. Nowhere did Ford mention the issue of either limiting homes to four extension cords or doing a wiring swap to abide the GFCI. So come on, Ford was advertising these as powering homes without limiting things. ...And do you really expect John Q Public to research the 600 page owners manual to find out if the generator he's buying will run his home without making the home fit the truck and do it before placing his order? Oh come on, Ford, and you, can do better than that. You're being self righteous...

 

[Snakebitten]

Those articles are exactly how I was hooked into fetching one of those magical Powerboost trucks.
I was in an RV in Texas during The Freeze. 12F inside. Brrrrr

I read every one of those articles that I came across. Don't recall anything about Ford stating that anyone could or should plug the Powerboost into the residential power distribution panel.

I also haven't seen them say that you can't, to be fair.

Besides, can't you? If you want to with the necessary tenacity required?

I don't know what you want Ford to do?

I'm an RV'r.
So admittedly the Powerboost has never presented even the slightest challenge to powering my humble abode.

 

[HammaMan]

The lightning system requires a lot of work and basically utilizes either a priority loads sub-panel with discrete inverter that connects to the big ford charger, which taps the HVB directly to that $4k inverter to then power the priority panel like a lot of gensets do. It bypasses the trucks inverters entirely subbing it instead for an external inverter unit. It's uneccesarily complicated. The truck has a 2.4kW and 7.2kW inverters (when PPOB optioned) -- basically both of the powerboost's options in one, which again aren't even used for the home backup system.

The shared KIA EV platform uses the motor's 3 phase inverter to do all sorts of tricks like boosting charge voltage if the fast charger can't feed it the 800v battery voltage. It also has a 2kW power tap that can plug into the charge port and feed 20a 120v out directly from it. GM does things like reconfiguring their twin 400v batteries into series / parallel depending on what the charger can do.

Given just how game changing and useful the PPOB option has been, I suspect we'll soon be seeing most SUVs and trucks that have HVBs in any capacity to add these capabilities. Huge props to Ford on this one. Though I'd really like to see more done with the powerboost in the realm of being able to charge an EV. While the motor is only rated for 35kW of mechanical load output, it can actually generate 40kW of power. If they somehow brought the lightning and powerboost under the same design umbrella, we could see much higher end capabilities from it. I think just in marketing value alone it's worth it. A hybrid expedition and explorer with home power backup capabilities would certainly be a decent value-add for most non-city folk.

 

[jeffcrum]

Those articles are exactly how I was hooked into fetching one of those magical Powerboost trucks.

Me too. It was awesome and sold me.

 

[Snooker_ML]

My electrician was over today. He can't get past the GFCI being on the generator, and thinks a LOT of fridges would trip it. He said attempting to switch a neutral with any kind of 3 pole transfer switch would never fly for our local inspectors whom he knows well. AND all the extra requirements I would need for newer code changes if I "touched" my main panel on my 40 year old home. I won't even talk about the bonding discussion... I'm done. Thanks for the discussion!

So for me, I'm pretty much done with my questions. I'll just resort to the same thing the Texas ice storm owners did: plug in extension cord(s). Nobody in those news stories actually had it connected in any way to their main breaker panels.

I don't want to do anything to my home this major that isn't permitted and inspected so..... maybe I'll add a pigtail plug on my furnace and use a 30 amp extension cord:

 

[Gros Ventre]

Just remember, Ford basked in the glow of the Texas ice storm when they allowed dealers to parcel out Powerboosts to power homes without power... And not a peep about the major modifications required if you wanted to run your whole home. Of course that 7.2 kW generator is more than capable of running that whole home, just don't count on it.

 

[GraffiX]

So after 30 pages of discussion have we come to a conclusion? Can we or can’t we use the power boost as an alternative to a legacy generator to partially power a house?

 

[Yves]

My electrician was over today. He can't get past the GFCI being on the generator, and thinks a LOT of fridges would trip it. He said attempting to switch a neutral with any kind of 3 pole transfer switch would never fly for our local inspectors whom he knows well. AND all the extra requirements I would need for newer code changes if I "touched" my main panel on my 40 year old home. I won't even talk about the bonding discussion... I'm done. Thanks for the discussion!

So for me, I'm pretty much done with my questions. I'll just resort to the same thing the Texas ice storm owners did: plug in extension cord(s). Nobody in those news stories actually had it connected in any way to their main breaker panels.

I don't want to do anything to my home this major that isn't permitted and inspected so..... maybe I'll add a pigtail plug on my furnace and use a 30 amp extension cord:

I think your electrician doesn't know what he is talking about but I'm like you not an electrician and trust them to follow the code. If the power is reliable in your area then the option that you choose might be enough and way cheaper than adding a new panel. I never heard anyone having a problem with their fridge and the Powerboost but maybe larger fridge could have problem.... I know some have problem with their A/C but this is not related to the GFI.

 

[Yves]

So after 30 pages of discussion have we come to a conclusion? Can we or can’t we use the power boost as an alternative to a legacy generator to partially power a house?

Yes you can. I did it at my place and several people on this thread/forum. My house was built in 2001, my son's house was built in early 1970 and my Powerboost can connect to the panel generator without any problems. Just use a proper panel for bonded generator.

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