Factory battery ongoing issues

[Overboost]

Had my under hood 12V battery replaced last fall during a dealer visit after it failed their multi-point check. My truck frequently goes between speakers and cluster for the chimes, which usually indicates the battery voltage dropping slightly. No battery saver indicator on the screen since owning the truck.

My observations are that there are things happening when the vehicle is off, which makes me wonder exactly what's happening when the truck is asleep.

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[HammaMan]

Had my under hood 12V battery replaced last fall during a dealer visit after it failed their multi-point check. My truck frequently goes between speakers and cluster for the chimes, which usually indicates the battery voltage dropping slightly. No battery saver indicator on the screen since owning the truck.

My observations are that there are things happening when the vehicle is off, which makes me wonder exactly what's happening when the truck is asleep.

At the very least modern vehicles are cell phones. It will eventually go to sleep when energy is low.

 

[Overboost]

At the very least modern vehicles are cell phones. It will eventually go to sleep when energy is low.

True, but just like cell phones, there are background apps and processes that are draining the battery.

 

[Gros Ventre]

True, but remember, just because the truck is "not running," doesn't mean it is off. The computer system is always on with a programmed method of reducing current draw if left not running for various lengths of time. Many are used to the "older generation" of cars & trucks where when you turned the ignition key to Off, It was really off, ie the battery was effectively disconnected from the rest of the truck. Well those days are gone... your truck is always on, its just how much of it is on? Only your programmer knows for sure...

 

[HammaMan]

True, but just like cell phones, there are background apps and processes that are draining the battery.

Yes, this is very much variable. The modem is always on and has a parasitic draw analogous to an idle phone. Both fordpass app and ford in general can poll the vehicle at any point. That's what the little down blips are in this data when nothing else is going on. The TCU is the modem. We don't know how much memory it has or what systems it wakes up to poll. The TCU can wake up pretty much any module/groups of modules it's requested to.

The new fordpass v5 polls the vehicle every time you open it. V4 of the app requires you to refresh data to poll it.

This was what the situation looked like under fordpass v4 -- significantly less wakeups. The up spikes are driving events if you're curious.

 

[Overboost]

Yes, this is very much variable. The modem is always on and has a parasitic draw analogous to an idle phone. Both fordpass app and ford in general can poll the vehicle at any point. That's what the little down blips are in this data when nothing else is going on. The TCU is the modem. We don't know how much memory it has or what systems it wakes up to poll. The TCU can wake up pretty much any module/groups of modules it's requested to.

The new fordpass v5 polls the vehicle every time you open it. V4 of the app requires you to refresh data to poll it.

This was what the situation looked like under fordpass v4 -- significantly less wakeups. The up spikes are driving events if you're curious.

This is good data to have. I'd love to see more detail while the vehicle is off, sitting parked over a 24 hour period.

 

[HammaMan]

This is good data to have. I'd love to see more detail while the vehicle is off, sitting parked over a 24 hour period.

There's days where it sat for a week or longer. That's 15 days of data in each graph, dates on bottom.

 

[Overboost]

There's days where it sat for a week or longer. That's 15 days of data in each graph, dates on bottom.

Sorry, let me clarify...do you have data from a 24 hour period where it was driven, then left sitting?

 

[Gros Ventre]

Sorry, let me clarify...do you have data from a 24 hour period where it was driven, then left sitting?

I have no data as I'm not the kind of guy who knows the details of programming. Snakebitten is the guy for that. But I do need to point out that this vehicle is never off unless you pull both 12VDC batteries. As a side note: early in my trucks life I had my dealership change the transmission fluid on GP. My purpose was to get out manufacturing dust & debris. The shop manual procedure to do this was not clear yet and the tech had some problems refilling it properly. Then the truck would start but not move and they were baffled to the point of some 12 hours of trouble shooting to include disconnecting the large 12VDC battery. But that didn't work. After some discussions I noted that the small 12VDC battery under the rear Pax seat was a "Keep alive" battery to keep the memory circuits energized. I said next time you disconnect the battery do both of them as that'll reset all circuits. They looked at me kind of funny but then they did and all was well as that reset the memory circuits.

 

[ReverendQ]

I have no data as I'm not the kind of guy who knows the details of programming. Snakebitten is the guy for that. But I do need to point out that this vehicle is never off unless you pull both 12VDC batteries. As a side note: early in my trucks life I had my dealership change the transmission fluid on GP. My purpose was to get out manufacturing dust & debris. The shop manual procedure to do this was not clear yet and the tech had some problems refilling it properly. Then the truck would start but not move and they were baffled to the point of some 12 hours of trouble shooting to include disconnecting the large 12VDC battery. But that didn't work. After some discussions I noted that the small 12VDC battery under the rear Pax seat was a "Keep alive" battery to keep the memory circuits energized. I said next time you disconnect the battery do both of them as that'll reset all circuits. They looked at me kind of funny but then they did and all was well as that reset the memory circuits.

@Snakebitten At the risk of interrupting your play time with your new toy (BTW it is NOT a real Mustang IMO) have you or anybody else figured out the "typical" average parasitic draw of the say a Lariat (middle of the trims in electrics) PB configuration?

@HammaMan
I got the following from Support at VIOFO for an A139P dash camera system in parking mode. In my dubious tracking I estimate the XLT sitting at about 15WDC consisting of the following for a 2-camera setup (camera WiFi OFF), maybe 6W for the modems, plus the rest from the XLT i.e. approach sensors and perimeter plus alarm I estimate 15WDC average total power consumption. I don't know what else to consider. Have any numbers I might consider pluging into Watt-hour Calculator (omnicalculator.com) ?

Course, this all is a bit of engineering curiosity as there is little we can do about it 'cept maybe LensunSolar Hood Solar Panel F-150 Powerboost BAP/Tremor Hood Installation | F150gen14 -- 2021+ Ford F-150, Tremor, Raptor Forum (14th Gen) | News, Owners, Community, Discussions

 

[Snakebitten]

@Snakebitten At the risk of interrupting your play time with your new toy (BTW it is NOT a real Mustang IMO) have you or anybody else figured out the "typical" average parasitic draw of the say a Lariat (middle of the trims in electrics) PB configuration?

I don't think I have ever typed or said the word Mustang when discussing the Mach-E. (please tell me I didn't)

So you have nothing to convince me of regarding whether I have a real Mustang or not. I know what a real Mustang is. ?

They're kinda slow though, right? ???? (sorry, couldn't resist)

Parasitic draw on a Powerboost.......
On mine, it's not as simple as a consistent draw value nonstop. Rather it's a fluctuating tax on the 12V system from various features that can be triggered inadvertently by a FOB, a FordPass command, an OTA poll from the mothership..... etc

If I park the truck in the barn and do NOT wake it up, the log file for the Bluetooth voltmeter seems to show about a .02-.04V drop per day. I do not know if that is representative of most, many, or just some Powerboost trucks. If I had to guess it's probably many?

 

[ReverendQ]

I don't think I have ever typed or said the word Mustang when discussing the Mach-E. (please tell me I didn't)

So you have nothing to convince me of regarding whether I have a real Mustang or not. I know what a real Mustang is. ?

They're kinda slow though, right? ???? (sorry, couldn't resist)

Parasitic draw on a Powerboost.......
On mine, it's not as simple as a consistent draw value nonstop. Rather it's a fluctuating tax on the 12V system from various features that can be triggered inadvertently by a FOB, a FordPass command, an OTA poll from the mothership..... etc

If I park the truck in the barn and do NOT wake it up, the log file for the Bluetooth voltmeter seems to show about a .02-.04V drop per day. I do not know if that is representative of most, many, or just some Powerboost trucks. If I had to guess it's probably many?

Indeed, haven't heard you say it, but please tell others not to also. I don't know if all of them are slower, but they certainly are faster regaining range and performance. LOL

Indeed, tough to say and yes, it not linear, but it does have an average total over 24 hours. i.e. its not 800A but certainly it's not 800mA. I am trying to figure it out for my own sake, as a geek and tinkerer. Anyway, thanks for the reply (including the dig since it gave me a grin).

 

[Snakebitten]

I enjoy the banter. No worries.

However, now that I am spending some time hanging with the Mach-E crowd, (I don't fit the mould that well honestly) I can tell you with confidence that it sure as heck is NOT the owners of Mach-E that are using the Mustang term. In fact, most make it clear that to anyone who mentions it, that their Mach-E is a Mach-E and there's no claim otherwise.
I'm pretty sure all the fuss is from the real Mustang crowd? ?
(although I get the feeling some of the loudest objections are coming from folks that don't have either?)

It's Fords doing.

Maverick owners didn't brand their trucks as Mavericks. ?

 

[HammaMan]

@Snakebitten At the risk of interrupting your play time with your new toy (BTW it is NOT a real Mustang IMO) have you or anybody else figured out the "typical" average parasitic draw of the say a Lariat (middle of the trims in electrics) PB configuration?

@HammaMan
I got the following from Support at VIOFO for an A139P dash camera system in parking mode. In my dubious tracking I estimate the XLT sitting at about 15WDC consisting of the following for a 2-camera setup (camera WiFi OFF), maybe 6W for the modems, plus the rest from the XLT i.e. approach sensors and perimeter plus alarm I estimate 15WDC average total power consumption. I don't know what else to consider. Have any numbers I might consider pluging into Watt-hour Calculator (omnicalculator.com) ?

Course, this all is a bit of engineering curiosity as there is little we can do about it 'cept maybe LensunSolar Hood Solar Panel F-150 Powerboost BAP/Tremor Hood Installation | F150gen14 -- 2021+ Ford F-150, Tremor, Raptor Forum (14th Gen) | News, Owners, Community, Discussions

You're in socal so you should consider putting in the 30ah LFP if you want to keep the cameras powered continuously. How long do you leave the truck parked? Mine can sit for 2 weeks and still not enter low power mode, even with a short 15m drive here and there it stays happy. While a solar panel makes a lot of sense for modern vehicles due to persistent wireless connections, that solar panel looks like typical chinese garbage. Poor execution of a good idea. Not fond of it being on the hood, sure as hell don't want to look at it, and the delamination issues... Not sure if their power draw estimates are accurate or not. I think you're just going to have to do some experimenting and see where things land.

As for the MME being a "mustang", it's more worthy of the title than 90% of the vehicles to carry the badge. Can't wait to see the corvette community reaction when the 4 door CUV electric vette drops.

 

[scott011422]

@Snakebitten At the risk of interrupting your play time with your new toy (BTW it is NOT a real Mustang IMO) have you or anybody else figured out the "typical" average parasitic draw of the say a Lariat (middle of the trims in electrics) PB configuration?

@HammaMan
I got the following from Support at VIOFO for an A139P dash camera system in parking mode. In my dubious tracking I estimate the XLT sitting at about 15WDC consisting of the following for a 2-camera setup (camera WiFi OFF), maybe 6W for the modems, plus the rest from the XLT i.e. approach sensors and perimeter plus alarm I estimate 15WDC average total power consumption. I don't know what else to consider. Have any numbers I might consider pluging into Watt-hour Calculator (omnicalculator.com) ?

Course, this all is a bit of engineering curiosity as there is little we can do about it 'cept maybe LensunSolar Hood Solar Panel F-150 Powerboost BAP/Tremor Hood Installation | F150gen14 -- 2021+ Ford F-150, Tremor, Raptor Forum (14th Gen) | News, Owners, Community, Discussions

last spring i did a 14h overnight datalog with an inline multimeter. (Somewhere in the BMS thread) I just threw that data in a spreadsheet and it gave me an average of .1153A.

I drive a 502A

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