Will Ford do a PHEV Powerboost?

[Oakstone]

With the Lightning not living up to their sell through expectations I would absolutely love to see a PB with a “real” battery. No idea of the weight implications but even 100mile range would probably cover a lot of folks in EV mode and still leave the ICE for towing, distance and charging on the go.

Do you folks have interest in something like that?

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[amschind]

The Aviator hybrid powertrain (bored+stroker 2.7=>3.0 paired with a 100 HP electric motor and 10R80) would be amazing for an F150, but I sincerely believe that it will be underwhelming until Ford makes a hybrid specific 10R80. Close gears don't help hybrids that much, so if the factory range of 4.61:1 to 0.64:1 were, say 3rd through 8th, and Ford added two granny gears down to 5.1:1 and two more OD gears up to 0.5:1, you would have an astronomical range of torque.

Thought experiment: Take a 3.73 rear with the 5.1:1 up to 0.5:1 transmission and the engine/hybrid motor straight from a 2021 Aviator. That makes 415 lb-ft max plus another 215 lb-ft from the electric motor. We can guess that the Cyclone V6 3.3L is ABOUT the power output without any boost, or 265 lb-ft. Say losses are 20% of those figures, so 332 lb-ft, electric motor loses maybe 15% because its purely powering the wheels not accessories, so 182 lb-ft, and 212 lb-ft for cyclone zero-boost proxy.

So peak torque would be 332+182=514*5.1*3.73=9777 lbft at the wheel. In contrast, in 10th with zero boost ,you get 130*+0=130*0.5*3.73=243 lb-ft. Put another way, Aviator hybrid powertrain+wider gears 10R80+current 3.73 rear allows for the truck to automatically vary torque output by 4000% using only throttle inputs from the driver using gear shifting, electronic wastegate and electric motor that Ford already produces.

*I can't find a dyno graph for the 3.3l Cyclone, so I'm fudging torque as 50% max at 1350 RPM. That's conservative for my purposes, as the real output is likely lower and thus the real number would result in a larger range of variable output.

EDITS: I KANT SPEL GUD OR DOO MAFF GUD EETHER.

 

[Kodiak]

With the Lightning not living up to their sell through expectations I would absolutely love to see a PB with a “real” battery. No idea of the weight implications but even 100mile range would probably cover a lot of folks in EV mode and still leave the ICE for towing, distance and charging on the go.

Do you folks have interest in something like that?

That would be outstanding and something that I hope has been in the works for a while now, PB Version2, I hope.

The 2025 Ramcharger might be the model of what could/should come as long as Ram does it right.

 

[amschind]

That would be outstanding and something that I hope has been in the works for a while now, PB Version2, I hope.

The 2025 Ramcharger might be the model of what could/should come as long as Ram does it right.

A series hybrid is absolutely the way of the future.....I have just believed that we were gonna get one in 5 years for 15 years. Maybe in another 10?

 

[Gros Ventre]

Keep in mind that Ford (amongst many) introduce things to see how they work out. Probably 25 years ago they tried a front windshield glass, clear, defroster. Only saw it run one year, so I think it didn't pan out for them. The Escape Hybrid was a success in my opinion (I have a 2006 one and still going strong @450,000). So Ford is trying things out. I believe all Ford has to do to make the Powerboost into a PHEV is put a bigger battery in it. But look around the underframe and think about weight & balance... Not an easy thing even if the rest of the truck makes it seem a do-able do...

 

[Domino]

With the Lightning not living up to their sell through expectations I would absolutely love to see a PB with a “real” battery. No idea of the weight implications but even 100mile range would probably cover a lot of folks in EV mode and still leave the ICE for towing, distance and charging on the go.

Do you folks have interest in something like that?

I think it would be a winner

 

[KTM753]

I would definitely be interested in a PHEV F-150.

 

[PnchDrnk]

I am hoping the majority of automakers will go the direction that Ram is doing with the ramcharger. I think making a vehicle primarily electric with a backup built in ‘generator’ to only charge a low battery would be a winner. In my eyes you would negate a lot of the negatives of strictly ICE/EV vehicles with that combo.

 

[astrand1]

The Aviator hybrid powertrain (bored+stroker 2.7=>3.0 paired with a 100 HP electric motor and 10R80) would be amazing for an F150, but I sincerely believe that it will be underwhelming until Ford makes a hybrid specific 10R80. Close gears don't help hybrids that much, so if the factory range of 4.61:1 to 0.64:1 were, say 3rd through 8th, and Ford added two granny gears down to 5.1:1 and two more OD gears up to 0.5:1, you would have an astronomical range of torque.

Thought experiment: Take a 3.73 rear with the 5.1:1 up to 0.5:1 transmission and the engine/hybrid motor straight from a 2021 Aviator. That makes 415 lb-ft max plus another 215 lb-ft from the electric motor. We can guess that the Cyclone V6 3.3L is ABOUT the power output without any boost, or 265 lb-ft. Say losses are 20% of those figures, so 332 lb-ft, electric motor loses maybe 15% because its purely powering the wheels not accessories, so 182 lb-ft, and 212 lb-ft for cyclone zero-boost proxy.

So peak torque would be 332+182=514*5.1*3.73=9777 lbft at the wheel. In contrast, in 10th with zero boost ,you get 130*+0=130*0.5*3.73=243 lb-ft. Put another way, Aviator hybrid powertrain+wider gears 10R80+current 3.73 rear allows for the truck to automatically vary torque output by 4000% using only throttle inputs from the driver using gear shifting, electronic wastegate and electric motor that Ford already produces.

*I can't find a dyno graph for the 3.3l Cyclone, so I'm fudging torque as 50% max at 1350 RPM. That's conservative for my purposes, as the real output is likely lower and thus the real number would result in a larger range of variable output.

EDITS: I KANT SPEL GUD OR DOO MAFF GUD EETHER.

I really think ram has the right idea. Cut out most of the drive train. Throw a NA 6cyl running a generator and put an electric motor on the front and rear. Done. No transmissions, drive shafts, transfer cases etc. smooth power delivery. 90% of the time you can be all electric but when you need to tow or go long distances use the generator. Best of all worlds.

 

[HammaMan]

PHEV would rock, that should have been a 22.5 or 23 model year. Ford dropped the ball as it would have been a $7500 tax credit to boot. One thing the 10r trans could use is increasing 2 and 3 a smidge and work on faster shifting. The 1 to 2 shift is major weaksauce because there's such an RPM drop. Ratios don't make much sense to me on the low end. 4.7 3.5 2.4 etc.

With tax credit it'd have been a potent free powertrain upgrade.

 

[Oakstone]

I really think ram has the right idea. Cut out most of the drive train. Throw a NA 6cyl running a generator and put an electric motor on the front and rear. Done. No transmissions, drive shafts, transfer cases etc. smooth power delivery. 90% of the time you can be all electric but when you need to tow or go long distances use the generator. Best of all worlds.

Very similar approach to Edison Motors in Canada with their big rig version.

 

[astrand1]

Very similar approach to Edison Motors in Canada with their big rig version.

Exactly! I’ve been watching them since the beginning. Really simplifies the driveline I think. I’ve got a reservation on the Ramcharger and I’m excited about it. It’s gonna be hard giving up the PB because I love it.

 

[JJSnell]

I just wanna go further than backing out of my driveway on battery, is that so wrong?

 

[Kodiak]

Exactly! I’ve been watching them since the beginning. Really simplifies the driveline I think. I’ve got a reservation on the Ramcharger and I’m excited about it. It’s gonna be hard giving up the PB because I love it.

HA! Good on you. I think I would like it give it a model year and see how well things go for Ram with this. Let them work out some kinks, if any.

My gameplan right now, but this can change by the minute, is to see how this does for 2025 and 2026 then maybe consider a 2027. Maybe Ford will have some PB V2 with these features by then, hopefully sooner. By then I would like something nice to cruise the country and national parks in comfort and what I have totally fits that bill already so that Ramcharger would need to really move the needle.

I do love this 2022 Lariat PB and it is a total land cruising pleasure to drive, so I am not in a hurry to replace it. But I could/would for the right option.

Keep us posted how your Ramcharger experience goes. It does look great.

 

[doolin64]

With how much I enjoy mower Powerboost (warts an all), I would love a PHEV Powerboost

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