5.0 + E85 Fuel

[KingDavid]

Yeah. I ain’t ever going back to regular gas.

2022 FX4 5.0 3.73

Last truck was a 2018 2wd supercab with the 3.5 eco. Black STX with 305 Toyos. MPT tuned 70/30 methanol. Affectionately known as ‘Sleeping Beauty’. She was bad..

50,000 miles into this 5.0 dad truck. Sport mode sucks. Otherwise wonderful tuning and super good ride with regular old 87 octane. Average 22mpg. Real nice truck.

Then I tried e85. About 16-17mpg and the power was about like when I would waste the money on 93 octane cuz I still miss Sleeping Beauty.

Then I put it in Sport mode.

Yeah. I ain’t ever going back to regular gas.

Get it tuned if you haven't already (Livernois, 5-Star, Preaux, AMRL, PBD, Oz; pick one). It's even better. The emailed tunes I believe cap at e40, so if I understand it correctly, you don't need to run a full tank of pump e85.

Wonder if there's a test strip I can stick in the tank to see what my approximate ethanol percentage is. If not, guess I'll have to get an ethanol gauge of some sort.

I think we have to run one full tank of pump gas per quarter if we constantly use e85? I'm not too sure.

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[KingDavid]

Sometimes my 5.0 kind of boggs (runs rough and loud), going up a hill ~10mph shortly after a cold start. Not sure if this is ethanol related or not, but weirdly it only happens after the 1-3 shift when cold. Not sure if this is an e85 issue or not.

I've never experienced this because I almost never move my truck during the cold cam phaser idle. And I live in flat south Florida. Could be your transmission having to work too soon while bone chilling cold? I remote start when I'm almost ready to head out in ~3-5 mins.

But then again, I'm tuned and have been tuned I think in less than a month of ownership.

 

[robry]

Get it tuned if you haven't already (Livernois, 5-Star, Preaux, AMRL, PBD, Oz; pick one). It's even better. The emailed tunes I believe cap at e40, so if I understand it correctly, you don't need to run a full tank of pump e85.

Wonder if there's a test strip I can stick in the tank to see what my approximate ethanol percentage is. If not, guess I'll have to get an ethanol gauge of some sort.

I think we have to run one full tank of pump gas per quarter if we constantly use e85? I'm not too sure.

Oz said there is no benefit over e40, or rather you get the maximum benefit of e85 at e40. I know for a fact my 5 star flex tune adds appropriate timing for e85. The truck on the same tune with 93 in the tank is so dramatically different. It's definitely 35-40whp difference.

 

[SilverPigeon]

...I think we have to run one full tank of pump gas per quarter if we constantly use e85? I'm not too sure.

From the manual:
"SWITCHING BETWEEN E85 AND GASOLINE Do not be concerned if the engine sometimes knocks lightly. However, if the engine knocks heavily while using fuel with the recommended octane rating, contact an authorized dealer to prevent any engine damage. We do not recommend repeatedly alternating between E85 and gasoline. If you switch from using E85 to gasoline, or from gasoline to E85, add as much fuel as possible, at least half a tank. Drive your vehicle immediately for a minimum of 5 mi (8 km) to allow it to adapt to the change in ethanol concentration. If you use E85 exclusively, we recommend that you fill the fuel tank with regular unleaded gasoline at each scheduled oil change."

 

[KingDavid]

Oz said there is no benefit over e40, or rather you get the maximum benefit of e85 at e40. I know for a fact my 5 star flex tune adds appropriate timing for e85. The truck on the same tune with 93 in the tank is so dramatically different. It's definitely 35-40whp difference.

Yup I've noticed the same! So until I get a something to track the fuel mixture, I'll just do 3/4 pump e85, 1/4 87 oct. Tank mileage increased a bit vs doing pure pump e85. Haven't felt a drop in performance at all.

 

[robry]

Yup I've noticed the same! So until I get a something to track the fuel mixture, I'll just do 3/4 pump e85, 1/4 87 oct. Tank mileage increased a bit vs doing pure pump e85. Haven't felt a drop in performance at all.

I just run full e85, its just easier than mixing, and I still manage to get over 400 miles on a 36 gallon tank.

 

[KingDavid]

From the manual:
"SWITCHING BETWEEN E85 AND GASOLINE Do not be concerned if the engine sometimes knocks lightly. However, if the engine knocks heavily while using fuel with the recommended octane rating, contact an authorized dealer to prevent any engine damage. We do not recommend repeatedly alternating between E85 and gasoline. If you switch from using E85 to gasoline, or from gasoline to E85, add as much fuel as possible, at least half a tank. Drive your vehicle immediately for a minimum of 5 mi (8 km) to allow it to adapt to the change in ethanol concentration. If you use E85 exclusively, we recommend that you fill the fuel tank with regular unleaded gasoline at each scheduled oil change."

I never used e85 before being tuned.

This is what Livernois recommends with their tune involving flex fuel;

Flex Fuel ethanol relearning drive cycle:
Perform a 5-10 minutes part throttle (below 50% without extended idle time) drive cycle before going heavy throttle if using any ethanol blend. I will say if you're consistently using gasoline, you would be fine, but transitioning to, from, or even when staying with ethanol blends you should do this drive cycle to allow it to learn the ethanol content.

So, basically

87-93 octane fuel in the last 2 tanks, and putting 87-93 in it again, no drive cycle needed

E85 in the tank, and putting in 87-93, drive cycle needed for at least 2 tank fulls to get all the ethanol out

87-93 in the tank and moving to E85, drive cycle needed

any mix of E85 in the tank adding E85 in, or 87-93 in requires the drive cycle.

I just run full e85, its just easier than mixing, and I still manage to get over 400 miles on a 36 gallon tank.

I also have a 36 gallon tank and it jumped to 450+ with the full mixed tank when I fill it last. It was the first time I mixed it and didn't fill it from empty. I was at half a tank of pump 85 and decided to fill it back up. Used a calculator to fill it to 3/4 pump e85 and then topped it off with 87. This is with a TON of idling since my last fill-up and very spirited driving from time to time. I want to say I saw ~470 at one point? But I wasn't really paying much attention.

Here it is currently

This is the calculation I used. Turns out it wasn't a 1/4 tank, it was the gallons! ??‍ I put 10 gallons of 87. I'm glad the cache saved the page.

 

[Calson]

E85 mixtures can vary widely with the lax guidelines in place. In theory E85 is 85% ethanol with gasoline added to help with starting a cold engin. Actual fuel at the pump can be from 51 to 83 percent so fuel economy can vary greatly.

Ethanol is used to absorb the 40% greater production of corn and is a direct subsidy to the industry. More fuel is used to grow the corn for ethanol than is produced by burning the ethanol in engines but this is OK as the bilionaires still get their susidies and profits and that is all that matters.

 

[KingDavid]

E85 mixtures can vary widely with the lax guidelines in place. In theory E85 is 85% ethanol with gasoline added to help with starting a cold engin. Actual fuel at the pump can be from 51 to 83 percent so fuel economy can vary greatly.

Ethanol is used to absorb the 40% greater production of corn and is a direct subsidy to the industry. More fuel is used to grow the corn for ethanol than is produced by burning the ethanol in engines but this is OK as the bilionaires still get their susidies and profits and that is all that matters.

Yeah that's why I set the ethanol percentage to 55%. It would likely be mich higher than that in south Florida in the summer months, but I wanted a lot of wiggle room. So far, so good.

 

[Moroney167]

Great to see a thread I started actually moving.

Update for me my truck now has 23K miles. Other than towing to Florida last winter and using 91 all winter, I switched back to E85 for last probably 5,000 miles. No issues truck loves it. I drive mainly backroads with very little city driving or lights but regardless stop and go roads. I average 14.4 mph according to trip meter, hand calc about the same give or take. I try to be good with it but mainly drive regular and do my best to keep speeds at limit's. Anything over 72 on highway I see a major drop in MPG but stays 14.4-14.8 mpg if I reset each fill up. 36 gal tank dash always reads 470-480 miles at fill up. E85 holding average of $2.70-$2.80 a gallon. Even with my E load 285 (33.5" - 61.99 lb each Nitto Ridge Grappler) on 22 Wheels I am somewhat happy with economy. Again its a truck but fun power and under $80 per fill up. I would like to run 91 more in a summer to really compare if I can get better mpg. (4 door 6.5 Bed 5.0 Lariet Max Tow pkg)

 

[Kimball Knight]

Sometimes my 5.0 kind of boggs (runs rough and loud), going up a hill ~10mph shortly after a cold start. Not sure if this is ethanol related or not, but weirdly it only happens after the 1-3 shift when cold. Not sure if this is an e85 issue or not.

My '18 and '23 5.0 both do this too.

 

[dmac]

My '18 and '23 5.0 both do this too.

On regular gas too?

 

[Kimball Knight]

On regular gas too?

Yes, on regular gas. The '23 is new and I tried one tank of E85 and it acted the same. About one block from our house is a stop sign then a slight hill. Both trucks hesitate slightly when I start up the hill then accelerate/shift normally. "Cold" start is a bit misleading when the outside temperature is near 100.

 

[KingDavid]

Great to see a thread I started actually moving.

Update for me my truck now has 23K miles. Other than towing to Florida last winter and using 91 all winter, I switched back to E85 for last probably 5,000 miles. No issues truck loves it. I drive mainly backroads with very little city driving or lights but regardless stop and go roads. I average 14.4 mph according to trip meter, hand calc about the same give or take. I try to be good with it but mainly drive regular and do my best to keep speeds at limit's. Anything over 72 on highway I see a major drop in MPG but stays 14.4-14.8 mpg if I reset each fill up. 36 gal tank dash always reads 470-480 miles at fill up. E85 holding average of $2.70-$2.80 a gallon. Even with my E load 285 (33.5" - 61.99 lb each Nitto Ridge Grappler) on 22 Wheels I am somewhat happy with economy. Again its a truck but fun power and under $80 per fill up. I would like to run 91 more in a summer to really compare if I can get better mpg. (4 door 6.5 Bed 5.0 Lariet Max Tow pkg)

26 gallon pump e85, 10 gallon 87. Reset the trip mileage and try that out.

Basically put 10 gallons of 87 octane and then the rest with pump e85. Lmk what your mileage looks like. Today on my way to the dealer, my remaining tank mileage on the stock flash was 420...with 3/4 tank left.

 

[Rockman5159]

Ethanol has its place but it doesn’t have more energy than gas, any extra power that ethanol can produce is due to the increased compression that it can take. The only way ethanol can really be useful is if the vehicle can adjust the compression to accommodate it. My 5.4 ’08 would lose almost 1/3 of its rated range with E85. I don’t know how much adjustment the new 5.0 can do but the ecoboosts could do something with ethanol assuming they’re flex fuel compatible. Which brings up the other issue; if your vehicle isn’t made to be flex fuel, if you don’t have the yellow identifier at the fuel door you’re probably hurting your vehicle. The ethanol will eat at the normal fuel rubber used and over time will cause it to fail, it won’t happen the first time you put it in but with enough use it will fail.

Im in my late 60 and I remeber the GAS SHORTAGE, then Gasahol made from corn it sucked then IMO noy much better now.It also absorbs water.moisture from atmosphere not a fan

 

[ZX250]

I get better mileage in Sport Mode than in regular mode. Eco gets same as Sport. I just fill up with e85. No idea what the actual percentage is. Driving it “sporty” I get 14 mpg. Keeping my foot out of it I average 21 on the highway provided I get it over 70 to get it in 10th gear.

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