Installed Transfer Switch in House

[Dresdie]

I've been looking into a transfer switch solution in our area. Our local power company works with Generlink devices but, their products do not support F150 bonded-neutral configuration, unfortunately. Dunno yet if that's a requirement to use their devices. Back to searching for a reasonable/safe solution. Maybe just a bunch of 100ft extension cords will do.

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[Dresdie]

Finally got around to do this install, have an electrician scheduled for Friday to install this (Generac 6852). Hopefully goes well, I am not an electrician by any means, but I will post any updates on here. This thread has been super helpful, now its just a matter of if I can read and if my electrician is capable lol.

Eager to hear how it goes. Did your electrician agree to test it with your truck or is that up to you post-install?

 

[Dresdie]

Finally got around to do this install, have an electrician scheduled for Friday to install this (Generac 6852). Hopefully goes well, I am not an electrician by any means, but I will post any updates on here. This thread has been super helpful, now its just a matter of if I can read and if my electrician is capable lol.

Also curious - where are they installing (or do they typically install) your panel and generator input outlet?

 

[Gros Ventre]

Here is food for thought. I am not recommending this. But if workable it allows whole panel operation with out the other complication.

 

[thicctacoboi]

Eager to hear how it goes. Did your electrician agree to test it with your truck or is that up to you post-install?

They rescheduled to this Friday, so I will update the thread after the install. I told him he will not be paid until its checked, temps checked on the breaker, and a 30 min load test is completed. He agreed.

 

[Gros Ventre]

It has been recommended by another's electrician. I cannot remark. The author is an EE and the logic seems to hold.

 

[thicctacoboi]

Update: So its installed, had some back and forth with the electrician so it took a bit longer.

The plug is mounted outside, ran inside into the Generac Sub Panel. There is a breaker in the main panel that the sub is ran to, tested it all, works great. Significantly lower draw than I had anticipated (sub 800 watts with everything turned on, microwave bumps it to 2k).

There is no typical location for installing, its whatever you want really. I had it installed next to my main panel, with the exterior generator plug on the backside of the wall the sub panel is installed on.

In regards to the panel, I had expected the Utility LED light to be lit when there is utility power, but that is not how it functions. After calling Generac (8pm at night on a sunday, they were super helpful) they told me if power is lost, hook up generator and run, when power comes back, the green light will turn on letting you know, then you flip the rocker switch and turn off your generator.

Overall pretty happy. Fun part is we are now selling the house, so I am doing this all over again at a new place...

 

[SouthernGuy]

For those of you that have already installed a Generac Manual Transfer switch, I would like to ask a wiring related question.
When all of the circuits that will have on Back-up Power are moved to the Transfer switch, did you only tie the HOT and NEUTRAL wires into the transfer switch enclosure? And the ground wire coming from the house wiring was left connected to the original Breaker Panel?
Thank all of you for your help pioneering this setup.

 

[scott011422]

All wires need to be moved

 

[Snooker_ML]

This thread has been a great help to me. Thanks! Do it right and don't cut corners. A neutral switching transfer switch is the only truly safe answer.
But here is what I've found out about one this will work for your "whole house" main panel. I hope it helps! A couple of you electrical experts please comment...

Hi everyone, I read everything here and it seems the official way to go is with a transfer switch. Looking on Generac website I found this Whole House Transfer Switch 6382 that should work together with a Switched Neutral Kit 6297.

I don't want to cheap out. I want the flexibility of the cheap option ?

Have not talked to an electrician yet. But, what I would like is to move my main box over and replace it with one that I can cut the hot and neutral wires. Single throw would be great. I'd bond the neutral to ground there making it my main entrance to the house. Then, my 'old' main would become a sub box with no bonding. The interlock could be installed there which I think would make it legal.

When the power goes out, I'd flip the new switch off breaking the bond, use the interlock to not back feed the lines (yes, flipping my new main off covers this, but, this covers the code), flip all breakers in my 'new' sub box off, power up the box with the truck, and flip the breakers I need/want.

Thoughts?

Does anyone (Reliance X Series?) make a whole house transfer switch (manual OK) that switches neutral too? Like this but switches neutral too. https://www.generac.com/all-product...ransfer-switches/whole-house-200a-utility-30a

This seems to be a great solution for a whole house transfer switch, but $$.

This is a 3 pole non-fused disconnect switch used as a transfer switch. 3 poles means it includes neutral, and it is the first location past the meter so on the line side of the neutral switch you would bond to ground, but on the generator side you would NOT bond the neutral to ground. Voila! The generator side still has the ground wire connected through to the earth ground rod. You would then make your main service panel a subpanel, meaning you would remove the neutral bond to ground because it is done upstream in this new switch. Your main service panel would also have to segregate all the neutrals separately from the grounds (if they aren't already).

This way you could have all of your circuits in your house available for use as needed (and don't have to deal with multiple circuits sharing one neutral.

Notice that this is a double pole switch with an OFF position, so there is no need for complications for sequencing the neutral to avoid a 240v intermittent issue on a 120v leg, like the Reliance X series was trying to fix. (Apparently in 2022 Reliance discontinued the X series (XRC, XRH, XRK) I read it was due to a change in how Siemens changed some of their solutions so the X would no longer work).

I've found a few similar 3 pole double throw switches. THEY ARE PRICEY!
Here are some part numbers for a 200A service, 240v:
Siemens DTNF324 - most sell for $2000 but one place is $1500
Square D: DTU324NRB
Eaton DT324UGK (Cutler Hammer)
ABB TC35324R
GE TC35324

Do your own research, I'm not an electrician and I'm still investigating which solution to go with, and the NEC local code ramifications of this solution in the YouTube, in my area. I'll probably end up with a Generac 6852 series.

 

[Snooker_ML]

Here is food for thought. I am not recommending this. But if workable it allows whole panel operation with out the other complication.

I ran across this as well lately. I wasn't going to bring it up but since you did..... This EE apparently does major installations of power systems and knows the NEC well, so he has the background.

His solution is at the generator cord's plug-in box, to connect the cord's ground to the box, but do not continue the ground to the service panel.

However he has stated in his comments that:
1) He is only showing this because people need a cheaper solution than a 3 pole transfer switch for example, which is the best solution, but people will shortcut so what ways are safe?
and
2) He has not decided if this is a safe solution for a F-150 PowerBoost. I just asked again and he said he hasn't decided yet.

Presumably because the F-150 is on rubber tires and is not earth grounded, which possibly complicates the idea of it being a "separately derived system" since breaking the ground wire between the cord plug-in and the breaker panel removes the earth ground connection for the ground wire (yet the circuit from the F-150 TO the cord plug-in box still has a ground return so GFCI still works on that portion of it). This is in contrast to the neutral switching transfer panel (e.g. Generac 6852), which carries the ground wire through it to the load panel which goes to the earth ground rod.

Note this is NOT the same as removing the ground pin on your 30A cord from the PB to the plug-in box, that provides NO protection when you are anywhere from the F150, along the cord, up to the plug-in box.

Here is one of his diagrams, which will be helpful to reference for discussion, showing the disconnected ground wire from the plug-in box to the main breaker panel.
Also note that he shows the generator tied to an earth ground - but he said in a comment reply that is not needed as the main load panel already has a ground rod. ? And I'm wondering about how GFCI would work on the main panel breakers that has it. So confusing.

What do you electricians think (don't guess or presume like me, if you don't know please).

 

[Gros Ventre]

I ran across this as well lately. I wasn't going to bring it up but since you did..... This EE apparently does major installations of power systems and knows the NEC well, so he has the background.

His solution is at the generator cord's plug-in box, to connect the cord's ground to the box, but do not continue the ground to the service panel.

However he has stated in his comments that:
1) He is only showing this because people need a cheaper solution than a 3 pole transfer switch for example, which is the best solution, but people will shortcut so what ways are safe?
and
2) He has not decided if this is a safe solution for a F-150 PowerBoost. I just asked again and he said he hasn't decided yet.

Presumably because the F-150 is on rubber tires and is not earth grounded, which possibly complicates the idea of it being a "separately derived system" since breaking the ground wire between the cord plug-in and the breaker panel removes the earth ground connection for the ground wire (yet the circuit from the F-150 TO the cord plug-in box still has a ground return so GFCI still works on that portion of it). This is in contrast to the neutral switching transfer panel (e.g. Generac 6852), which carries the ground wire through it to the load panel which goes to the earth ground rod.

Note this is NOT the same as removing the ground pin on your 30A cord from the PB to the plug-in box, that provides NO protection when you are anywhere from the F150, along the cord, up to the plug-in box.

Here is one of his diagrams, which will be helpful to reference for discussion, showing the disconnected ground wire from the plug-in box to the main breaker panel.
Also note that he shows the generator tied to an earth ground - but he said in a comment reply that is not needed as the main load panel already has a ground rod. ? And I'm wondering about how GFCI would work on the main panel breakers that has it. So confusing.

What do you electricians think (don't guess or presume like me, if you don't know please).

Note that in this guy's diagram, there is an earth ground without the ground rod at the generator. Effectively if you follow the wiring, it goes back through the neutral wire since it is tied to the ground wire in the house wiring and thence to the house ground rod. He also shows this same diagram without the ground rod at the generator.

 

[Gros Ventre]

What really bothers me is that the major electrical panel manufacturers don't offer a full panel with a neutral switching capability. They all offer an "emergency sub-panel" that has neutral switching capability. But this then limits your house to a few circuits. The reality is that your whole house can be powered from as small as a 3 kW generator. You have to not use 3 really big loads: hot water heater, Oven, & Dryer. Of course if you have these three items supplied by natural gas or propane, then your whole house can be powered no sweat. The rest of the house is likely less than 1 kW total. With the PowerBoost you can power the whole house including these three items (although not at the same time). I ran my whole house, with those three big loads off, for some 10 days when a major land fire blew through my community, using a 4 kW generator (at my altitude it was 3 kW). My only limitation was gasoline on hand.

 

[jeffcrum]

Understand that this situation is really only two years old. And, a very small market of the generators available to backup a house.

Panel manufacturers might come around. But, it won't be soon.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Understand that this situation is really only two years old. And, a very small market of the generators available to backup a house.

Panel manufacturers might come around. But, it won't be soon.

Got the concept!

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