Another *should I buy an PB* thread

[Samson16]

I’m on my 2nd PB and I’ve never had an issue of any kind with either. My second doesn’t get the fuel mileage I saw with the 1st, but still hovers around 19.5. I didn’t buy the PB for mileage. I just wanted a 7.2KW generator built into my truck. I‘ve used the generator several times and it performs as advertised.

With that being said, I have another truck on order and it’s the 3.5 with no Powerboost. I wanted something different this time. I spend a bunch of time on dirt roads doing outdoor stuff and I feel like I’m always worried about the PB going through muddy ruts, etc.

One of my best friends owns a Ford dealership so I trade way too often. I may end up with another PB someday, but going a different direction for now.

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[eharri3]

Toyota also decided that the built in generator is a gimmick and says to buy a generator with the money saved

One of the big problems with the separate generator option is that many people lack the inclination, discipline, or skills to maintain a small generator that is only used for occasional power outages. Not to mention that many are much louder than an idling truck and run at an obnoxious RPM. A 7.5KW generator is also going to weigh a lot and for certain situations; the Powerboost will be superior.

Really; the only thing added to the PB hybrid drivetrain to make it into a generator is the DC to AC inverter. Everything else is already there. IMO, it’s not a gimmick but a no brainer at that point. Keep in mind that this is the first iteration; I also feel that the hybrid truck has a better future than the all electric Lightning for all but a few applications but it’s not as sexy as the new BEV vehicles and doesn’t share the big fat tax credits or virtue signaling clout.

If someone wants a Powerboost and has the money; I would say go ahead and get one but just put it through its paces on a test drive if it’s used and try to get all the maintenance records to stay away from one that’s a lemon.

Good luck!

I owned an 09 Tundra for 13 years and took a hard pass on the Generation 3 Tundra in favor of my Powerboost. The more reviewers dig into the Gen3 Tundra the more the consensus is becoming that Toyota simply did not set its sights on raising the bar in the class this time around like they did in 2007. This is the general impression I
Got when shopping.

And that is because they interpret past results as an indicator they're not selling 600k Tundras per year no matter what they do. So no use pouring money into trying to lure in Ford or Chevy or Ram owners anymore, just hold onto Toyota fans. But on the Toyota boards when you point out the sightly smaller front and rear interior, intrusive rear transmission tunnel with no flat load floor, middle of the road all around performance, uncompetitive capacity and ride quality, and no generator in the hybrid, most users parrot the Toyota line given as an excuse for their penny pinching: Focus groups kept telling them they didn't want all the 'fluff' you can get in other the half tons. You know, getting back to their roots and all that. All the stuff you need, none of the stuff you don't or some such talking point.

For example Focus groups did not want a flat rear floor With locking folding storage like the F150. But they apparently begged for a complicated user interface for the infotainment system requiring user profile setup for each key fob that no other manufacturer sees the need for. And which needed immediate updates due to widespread complaints. That was critical.

Also the focus groups hated tow hooks that every other manufacturer has. Surveyed Toyota owners expressed that they're too cool For that right after telling them right there's no need for more than the standard single 400w bed outlet.

 

[richardrocks]

I owned an 09 Tundra for 13 years and took a hard pass on the Generation 3 Tundra in favor of my Powerboost. The more reviewers dig into the Gen3 Tundra the more the consensus is becoming that Toyota simply did not set its sights on raising the bar in the class this time around like they did in 2007. This is the general impression I
Got when shopping.

And that is because they interpret past results as an indicator they're not selling 600k Tundras per year no matter what they do. So no use pouring money into trying to lure in Ford or Chevy or Ram owners anymore, just hold onto Toyota fans. But on the Toyota boards when you point out the sightly smaller front and rear interior, intrusive rear transmission tunnel with no flat load floor, middle of the road all around performance, uncompetitive capacity and ride quality, and no generator in the hybrid, most users parrot the Toyota line given as an excuse for their penny pinching: Focus groups kept telling them they didn't want all the 'fluff' you can get in other the half tons.

But apparently the focus groups begged for a complicated user interface for the infotainment system requiring user profiles for each key fob that no other manufacturer sees the need for. That was critical.

I’ve owned a couple Toyotas and yes, reliability is there for the most part, but I’ve come to believe that corporate is astounded and annoyed that folks want to own anything other than a Prius or Camry.

 

[Jus Cruisin]

I just tried to match a GMC to my truck in options and price. Closest I come to mine is 63k for a GMC 1500 SLT X31. Very nice truck, but the 5.3L is just not close to the PB in terms of power or mpg. Throw in the 7.2kW pro and it's no contest imo. Leather vs. cloth and a niftier tailgate doesn't begin to make up the difference in powertrain capability. In my price range and for my daily driver/ trailer towing needs the F150 302A PB 4x4 Sport 7.2kW is it.

No doubt Ford has a perfect truck for you and plenty have trouble free Powerboost drivetrains. The issue is the 3.5l engine could be fine but if the hybrid craps out, it won't run on the 3.5l alone. You're dead in the water.
Yep, Florida is the prime spot for good mpg with the Powerboost. I lived there for nearly 30 years quick warm up, on the battery right away and flat as a pool table for towing. That was where I did a lot of towing. Not camper but cars to car shows.
I never used the generator. I'm not a camper. My idea of camping would be in a 45' motorcoach with a 20kw genny.
My truck is my "Cadillac", not a tool. In fact, I already have my next car in my sights. It'll be a Cadillac CT5 Blackwing. That'll replace the ZL1 in a year or so.

 

[Samson16]

No doubt Ford has a perfect truck for you and plenty have trouble free Powerboost drivetrains. The issue is the 3.5l engine could be fine but if the hybrid craps out, it won't run on the 3.5l alone. You're dead in the water.
Yep, Florida is the prime spot for good mpg with the Powerboost. I lived there for nearly 30 years quick warm up, on the battery right away and flat as a pool table for towing. That was where I did a lot of towing. Not camper but cars to car shows.
I never used the generator. I'm not a camper. My idea of camping would be in a 45' motorcoach with a 20kw genny.
My truck is my "Cadillac", not a tool. In fact, I already have my next car in my sights. It'll be a Cadillac CT5 Blackwing. That'll replace the ZL1 in a year or so.

Loved your post. I'm still learning, but I think that if the Li-ion battery module fails the truck will still start and run on the 3.5l TT. It has a standard flywheel starter and AGM cranking battery for just such an event.

 

[Snakebitten]

Not Ford's first Hybrid.
I believe they have been building them for 20 years this year.

Sister has a 2013 Cmax. It's 10 years old this year, obviously. Other than rear wheel bearings and 12V battery a couple of times, it's been flawless.

What-ifs can eliminate much of the adventure life offers.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm a pretty big Ford Ecoboost fan. Or at least I think I must be because I've managed to have 4 of them in a row and that led to multiple family members following suit.
And regardless of its well documented weaknesses, we've had really good fortune with them.

Still, as an honest respecter of engineering prowess, I think Toyota is willing and able to build a better Ecoboost than Ford. And may very well have.
But Ford has their hooks deep into me on their strengths for the rest of the truck. I'm apparently a sucker for innovation, and Ford's reach in that arena can make Toyota look like they are building kitchen appliances.
Well designed, but as exciting as a refrigerator.

Having said all that, have I mentioned that Tundra cooling stack? Lol
Man does it look like they are serious about temperature management!

 

[eharri3]

Big disappointment for me seeing these steps backward after holding my 09 through 2-plus years years of redesign speculation. Then at the time I was shopping I was told based on market conditions that the first chance I'd get to ever drive this truck that was completely unimpressive to me on paper to sense that hidden Toyota awesomeness you only feel behind the wheel that makes it so special was going to be when I took delivery. Totally unworkable for me.

 

[Samson16]

I'm a pretty big Ford Ecoboost fan. Or at least I think I must be because I've managed to have 4 of them in a row and that led to multiple family members following suit.
And regardless of its well documented weaknesses, we've had really good fortune with them.

Still, as an honest respecter of engineering prowess, I think Toyota is willing and able to build a better Ecoboost than Ford. And may very well have.
But Ford has their hooks deep into me on their strengths for the rest of the truck. I'm apparently a sucker for innovation, and Ford's reach in that arena can make Toyota look like they are building kitchen appliances.
Well designed, but as exciting as a refrigerator.

Having said all that, have I mentioned that Tundra cooling stack? Lol
Man does it look like they are serious about temperature management!

What's special about the cooling stack and can it be imitated aftermarket for F150?

 

[thebigdu]

I'm a pretty big Ford Ecoboost fan. Or at least I think I must be because I've managed to have 4 of them in a row and that led to multiple family members following suit.
And regardless of its well documented weaknesses, we've had really good fortune with them.

Still, as an honest respecter of engineering prowess, I think Toyota is willing and able to build a better Ecoboost than Ford. And may very well have.
But Ford has their hooks deep into me on their strengths for the rest of the truck. I'm apparently a sucker for innovation, and Ford's reach in that arena can make Toyota look like they are building kitchen appliances.
Well designed, but as exciting as a refrigerator.

Having said all that, have I mentioned that Tundra cooling stack? Lol
Man does it look like they are serious about temperature management!

Yeah, I think I recall you mentioning it a few times ?

 

[Davexxxx]

I know, going to a forum dedicated to the PB is going to get very lop-sided opinions. I have been shopping around for a truck for the last couple of years. It started with being an early Lightning reservation holder, but evidently not early enough to get a Pro before they raised the price 21k!!!

I originally was looking for a Ram Diesel, or a Chevy diesel, but reliability issues and cost of ownership has me pulled away from them. Long story short, the PB appears to give me decent mpg with my short commute (3 miles each way), comfort on long trips with family, ability to pull our 6k camp trailer, and the ability to act as a home generator in power outages (one of the biggest reasons I wanted a lightning).

But, seeing consumer reports having the PB as virtually the lowest reliability vehicle has me scared. I wouldn't buy new, letting someone else take the depreciation hit, so want to know if buying a 21 with 20-40k miles is worth it. Or is having a factory warranty required to work through all the bugs? Are the 22s better then the 21s? Are the issues largely minor inconveniences? I currently have a Fusion Energi, so understand the transmission between electric/gas operation feel, and have read about fords poor programing of the 10speed. Are the problems mostly those with issues yelling the loudest?

Talk me into/out of buying a PB.

 

[Snakebitten]

Yeah, I think I recall you mentioning it a few times ?

The burden you poor fellas face with my embarrassing post count. ?

And if you have spent a few years towing with Ecoboost through the Rockies in high ambients, you likely have ran into the heat-sheadding limits. Much improved on the Gen2 3.5, but still requires pilot participation to stay out of limp mode.

I don't haven't seen any A/B comparison with the Tundra, but I did see a nice article somewhere with an impressive display of the Tundra with the grill removed.

 

[thebigdu]

The burden you poor fellas face with my embarrassing post count. ?

And if you have spent a few years towing with Ecoboost through the Rockies in high ambients, you likely have ran into the heat-sheadding limits. Much improved on the Gen2 3.5, but still requires pilot participation to stay out of limp mode.

I don't haven't seen any A/B comparison with the Tundra, but I did see a nice article somewhere with an impressive display of the Tundra with the grill removed.

Hardly a burden. You're a cornerstone of this forum and never pushy or showy with your wealth of knowledge and experience!

 

[Pedaldude]

...uncompetitive capacity and ride quality, and no generator in the hybrid, most users parrot the Toyota line given...

Definitely cult like behavior amongst the Toyota truck forum members! I recall a Tacomaland thread where a poor kid was practically burned at the stake for feeling that the reverse camera definition wasn’t as good as his other vehicle and wanted to upgrade.

The crazy thing is the generator is already there! It’s just lacking the DC-AC inverter of the Powerboost. Both Ford and Toyota seem to have settled with a 35KW motor/generator in their hybrid drivetrain.

Even pure ICE trucks by Ford are available with the 2KW inverter, which is usually enough to power many items that you’re normally plugging into a 15amp house outlet. 400 watts is maybe good enough to charge a phone or some other slow charger.

Toyota mostly abandoned their working truck owners in Canada and the United States; focusing on ‘lifestyle’ owners. At least in Mexico, you can still get the single cab Hilux with a 2,800LB payload. I could almost guarantee that if they just kept staying the course that they would have a larger market share just picking up disgruntled Ford/GM/Ram owners, rather than just trying to pigeon hole themselves.

One of the biggest problems of Toyota’s especially; is that most Toyota people are in the mindset of buying used and then keeping their vehicles for ten years or more. Every Toyota truck enthusiast would love to see a regular cab four cylinder 4X4 manual transmission 1980’s compact style Toyota truck for sale and scream “take my money,“ until it’s actually available and then drive home the compact on the interior, midsize on the exterior crew cab Tacoma with shit MPG and shit payload after they visit their local dealership.

There’s a big problem with that when it comes to specialty vehicles like work trucks. If everyone is waiting on the used truck; nobody’s buying them new and they are either unavailable, or extremely rare. I ran into that exact phenomenon looking for a used regular cab truck and wound up buying new.

...haven't seen any A/B comparison with the Tundra...

Probably because it would be too embarrassing.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Toyota had standing orders to gag all the various reviewers not to do any comparisons if they want continued invites to press junkets and have review trucks available.

Might have to wait for the third tier mom’s driveway reviewers to get an honest head to head out of the PB and Tundra hybrid.

...I did see a nice article somewhere with an impressive display of the Tundra with the grill removed.

It probably looks better with no grill!

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