vs. CyberTruck - A fair shake

[Aron]

Agreed. The CyberTruck appears to be a cool toy and conversation piece thanks to your thorough research ?

What might be bigger albeit less S3XY news is what is going on with the new bigger battery cells from Texas??

I see what you did there.

Though I agree that Tesla's research into cutting-edge battery technology might be it's biggest "moat".

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[F150patriot]

I saw a CT the other day on the street. it was black and it looked like crap, ugly as sin like a deformed whale!

 

[cpw]

From
https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume:
"According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never)."

My last F150 had a trailer behind it 4 times in 8 years; and never for more than 200 miles at a clip. For some truck buyers the redunction in range when towing is unacceptable, but for a lot of us range anxiety when towing isn't a consideration at all.

I'd be interested in a Lightning, since I think Ford made a pickup truck that happens to be electric. I think Tesla's CT is "we made something we think is cool" that is electric, and happens to be a bit like a pickup truck.

The biggest things turning me off of the Lightning when I bought a 2023 F150 last year were price, availability, and that I couldn't get a 6.5' box.

For me, if I want to go on a family road trip I'm probably not taking the pickup truck anyway; I'm going to go in the Honda ICE SUV.

 

[UNIKRN150]

I agree with everything that @HammaMan said in the first post. When I was looking at new truck a couple of years back, I briefly considered a Lightning, but pretty quickly discounted it because EVs just aren't good at long distance towing (my main reason for a truck purchase). Maybe in 10 years technology will have improved, but I wouldn't seriously consider any EV truck offering from any of the current manufacturers anytime soon.



But your post reminded me why I think that Tesla as a company would probably be better off without Elon at the helm. It's clear (based on his Twitter posts) that he never moved beyond his inner 14-year-old, and has a big enough bank account that nobody in any of his companies is willing to tell him that his ideas are sometimes garbage (clearly not all of them, but some). I have no doubt that it was Elon directly that came up with the Tesla model names--I'm sure that he thinks that he's clever that his models are named S3XY (using his favorite internet spelling).

If the CT had the specs to back up its initial claims, I think that I could get past its horrendous appearance. However, as it is, it truly gives me vibes of that Simpsons episode where Homer designs a car and everybody is scared to tell him that his ideas are garbage, and ends up with this monstrosity:

Yeah but there are a couple BIG problems (as “I” see it) with your thinking…

Without “ONE” man calling the shots, you get a “committee” making the decisions and we already have that in spades.

And while Tesla is a publicly traded company that has to answer to its shareholders, just like all the others… the “others” DON’T have one shareholder that could bankrupt the company by divesting should the Board of Directors piss him off.

I think a lot of people are blinded by Elon Musk’s “X” posts and are too emotionally invested to realize his vision and engineering prowess as it relates to the Automotive industry as a whole.
(BIG picture obscured by the little, tiny picture that "pisses me off"!)

Tesla is doing things that EVERY OTHER manufacturer should have done a decade ago but could never get it past “the committee”.

Elon Musk “came up with” a hell of a lot more than “the Model names”.

It was Elon Musk who looked at his Matchbox Cars as a “14 year old” and said… “why aren’t we building real cars like this?”

So he did!

It was Elon Musk who said… “why are we wasting all this copper wire to support a 12 volt electrical system instead of just going with 48 volts”?

So he DID!

It was Elon Musk who said… “why are we using the “CAN” network technology of the 1990s when we could use the Ethernet technology of today?”

So he DID!

It was Elon Musk who said… “If Airliners can use fly-by-wire, why can’t WE use steer-by-wire”?

So he DID!

And it was Elon Musk, inspired by his “14 year old” son who said… “why are we still building trucks based on a design from the 1940’s instead of coming up with a whole new way of doing it?".

SO HE DID!

Cybertruck is an experiment in Automotive technology and if I were wealthy enough to pitch-in “my” $120k to take part in that experiment, I WOULD! …in a heart beat.

But I’m not. And until the technology catches up with my financial reality (or vise-versa) I’ll be filling my F150 tank up with GASOLINE!

 

[Samson16]

You know, the PowerBoost F-150 has its faults and limitations, but since 2021 it has no equal. Four years of unique capability. The RamCharger will be the next attempt to match or exceed it, but that will be a 2025 model. Well done Ford.

 

[JExpedition07]

You know, the PowerBoost F-150 has its faults and limitations, but since 2021 it has no equal. Four years of unique capability. The RamCharger will be the next attempt to match or exceed it, but that will be a 2025 model. Well done Ford.

I think Ford engineered the PB well too, Toyotas hybrid might as well be dropped for pure ICE. Their package is too heavy and as a result is slower than ICE only competitors and gets worse fuel economy. The Sequoia gets worse mpg than a 6.2L V8 Sierra, and is slower both 0-60 and in the 1/4. Ford struck a balance where Toyota did not.

That is why I tell everyone to be careful what they wish for with a bigger battery and motor, there is a point of diminishing returns or even reversal of benefits, Toyota went so far they found the point of nullified benefits. They can boast best in class power figures, but the package is so damn heavy just about any competitors V8 (as well as TT V6 in Fords case) outwork it in the real world anyway.

 

[Buyer2021]

I ran across this video on CNN today, the vehicle is not furnished by Tesla but rented from a real-world owner.

Here's screen grabs of some details illustrating that the Cybertruck may indeed be, both figuratively and literally, the 'sharpest' and 'edgiest' vehicle on the road today

 

[Samson16]

Well, now that the CT is officially a rolling dumpster fire, who will step up and take advantage? Tesla haters should be rejoicing that now the quality EV companies have an opening in the market share!

 

[Suns_PSD]

I see 1-2 CT's per day living here in Austin. Saw one dropping a kid off at my kid's school this morning. To be fair it's probably the same 2-5 CTs that all live nearby and they all look exactly the same.

Up close, the build quality is atrocious. Imagine razor sharp seams with no finishing whatsoever with legit 1/2" gaps that vary absolutely everywhere. Not exaggerating here.

Anyways, EV's make great spare/ wife cars when you also have an ICE in the household and you are a long term home owner. I'll almost certainly replace my wife's Jeep eco-diesel with a Cadillac Lyriq when she is due for a replacement.

However, the future of FS SUV/ PU's is hybrid.

Really the manufacturers should generally offer 2 powertrain options in full size trucks: 1) standard hybrid for non home-owners &, 2) plug in hybrids for home owners.

Some vehicles the owners are more likely to be younger and non home owners and they should probably just stick with standard hybrids. For instance buyers of the new Chevy Colorado.

 

[Samson16]

My friends’ R1S is very nice. It’s incredibly powerful and the driving mode options and suspension height adjustments are seriously cool.

There’s just still something missing though. All that power and I don’t feel connected to it at all ??‍

Two of my senses are completely blocked from the driving experience. I can’t hear it and I can’t feel it. There is a disconnect that extreme acceleration events can’t overcome.

 

[Samson16]

Some vehicles the owners are more likely to be younger and non home owners and they should probably just stick with standard hybrids. For instance buyers of the new Chevy Colorado

Are you saying they should make a hybrid Colorado?
Little late now for it to be any good

 

[HammaMan]

My friends’ R1S is very nice. It’s incredibly powerful and the driving mode options and suspension height adjustments are seriously cool.

There’s just still something missing though. All that power and I don’t feel connected to it at all ??‍

Two of my senses are completely blocked from the driving experience. I can’t hear it and I can’t feel it. There is a disconnect that extreme acceleration events can’t overcome.

If you've got stock exhaust / intake on the PB, you're not exactly hearing it either. Granted mine was loaded with sound deadening material within 1k miles, it was rather quiet to begin with. While cruising the PB, and likely other F150s are quieter than the CT. It does pretty poorly in the NVH realm. The giant wiper is a big source of noise.

Despite its tech like its 48v / 4 wheel steering, CT is a huge letdown. I was really hoping to see the bar raised for trucks in general. Instead tesla just hopped onto the same couch ford and rivian were already sitting on. 250 miles of actual highway range...

 

[MetalCord]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this video about the CT yet. It is REALLY long but it highlights a lot of the issues that I haven't seen anyone mention in other videos. Like how the rear view is basically non-existent if the tonneau is closed AND it's raining. You're relying on the camera and it's a blurry mess when wet. They also peel skins off of carrots on the edges of the doors and crush a can of water with the power frunk. The things the CT fails at are kind of scary. It highlights what I've been saying since Tesla's founding - the number one obstacle for Tesla is that they are technology company, not a car company.

Tesla Cybertruck Review // We Drove It Over 500 Miles...And Oh Boy!!

 

[Suns_PSD]

Are you saying they should make a hybrid Colorado?
Little late now for it to be any good

The new Colorado/ Canyon is a poor seller as amazing as the tech, powertrain and look is. I just think the days where the average person is going to buy a new mid-size truck that only gets 20 mpg is mostly over. I've owned 2 Canyons in a row before my F150 and my diesel Canyon averaged 28 mpg. If the Canyon had 25-26 mpg on gas that would have been acceptable but really upper 20's should have been the goal.

Ultimately, I think nearly all vehicles should offer a hybrid drivetrain. The cost is minimal, and the benefits are real. More power, quieter, more efficient. But I agree, it's a bit late for that.

Look at the sales success that the Maverick is.

Regarding the CT, I had a deposit on one, before I had a full understanding of EV's.

The reality is that battery technology is where it's at. There is no giant leap coming from Tesla next week but instead incremental improvements over the next 1-2 decades that in time, will equal significant improvements.

Once you sort of wade through the Musk BS you start to recognize that Tesla in particular just builds lightweight, cheaply built EV's with actually quite small battery packs. Which is where a lot of the cost of an EV comes from. And a Tesla sized battery pack, was always going to be smaller than the Domestic options (to save money and weight) and as a result real world range was always going to be quite limited in a 7K# triangle on 35" AT tires. Poorly built basic cars, once hailed as 'futuristic', have always been a Tesla hallmark so no change there.

Once I sort of began putting together the puzzle and recognized the patterns of Tesla, I knew 100% that the price and range estimates for the CT were grotesquely exaggerated and so got my deposit back.

Musk's deposit system is brilliant. Collect half a billion in deposits on the CT alone, don't pay interest on it, use that money to build product with no intention of selling at the promised price or specs. It's literally a free loan! There are people that paid $250K up front in full for a founder's edition Roadster 6 years ago! Can you imagine? He doesn't give 2 craps if you actually buy or not, the free loan was the goal.

Even though the Sierra EV is rocking an extra 95% battery capacity, at similar prices, making it much more useable, I still think Hybrids are the future. If you think about it, when you pay an extra $30K up front for your Ev truck, you could have stuck that $30K in an interest bearing account and literally had gasoline for life for that ICE off of that money, at least as long as the battery pack in the EV would have lasted. Where are the savings?

I just dropped some considerably cash in to my '21 Limited so don't plan on changing anything for years. However, the only replacement truck that I'd even consider is the Ram plug in hybrid thing coming out next year. That's the game changer the industry needs, not the CT.

Of course, no 2 ways about it, no matter how much fuel I'd save with an upgraded truck, the most cost-effective solution is to just keep what I already have for many years to come.

 

[Samson16]

If you've got stock exhaust / intake on the PB, you're not exactly hearing it either.

My PB still gets angry in sport mode with the pedal down, but a better comparison would be the feel of a Raptor R at full throttle. His R1S is a quad motor 835hp monster.

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