vs. CyberTruck - A fair shake

[Aron]

Honestly, name any CEO you think would do a better job?

The COO at Tesla maybe? I don't have any idea--I don't really follow the company (or any other company) closely enough to have a suggestion at the tip of my fingers. All that I know is that most people (any middle manager, say) who would generate the questionable public antics that he does would end up being a net negative for a company, regardless of how well he might execute a vision. My feeling is that Tesla is past the "visionary startup" phase, and would be better served by an executive who can keep it on track without all of the unforced errors that he seems to continue to generate. It's not like it needs to play catch-up in this space; from a company perspective of maximizing income potential, they're really better served at keeping the gravy train rolling than continually betting the company on "moon shots". High risk/high reward works for startups, but maybe don't work as well for market leaders trying to keep their lead.

Hell, it actually would mostly solve the problem if he hired someone who could look over his shoulder and honestly ask him "do you really want to say/post/do that? I might have these secondary unforeseen consequences/meanings that you may not have initially considered."

Sponsored

 

[Samson16]

his ideas are sometimes garbage (clearly not all of them, but some).

Now you've made me think...Elon's failures. Boring company? The Tesla flexible solar shingles? Too soon to tell with X. I'm sure their are other flops, but the shear enormity of his successes are blinding me. SpaceX, Starlink, and Tesla are industry changing, life altering companies. I think it's great he calls the Starship booster the BFR. It is!

 

[Aron]

Now you've made me think...Elon's failures. Boring company? The Tesla flexible solar shingles? Too soon to tell with X. I'm sure their are other flops, but the shear enormity of his successes are blinding me. SpaceX, Starlink, and Tesla are industry changing, life altering companies. I think it's great he calls the Starship booster the BFR. It is!

My point was that he's maybe no longer the best fit to maximize the value of the company for Tesla shareholders. He clearly has led some great companies--SpaceX/Starlink and Tesla are two that are clearly net winners (CT notwithstanding, in my opinion). Other ideas of his seem honestly a bit boneheaded. The Boring Company? It's a tunneling company...nothing really revolutionary there--and the Las Vegas tunnel thing is a flat-out embarrassment. Hyperloop? I think the people who developed pneumatic tube systems 100+ years ago could have pointed out the obvious flaws with that one. Solar City seems to have basically collapsed, but I think that it's formally a part of Tesla now, and since it's been subsumed into the larger (successful) company, and it's harder for me to really understand how it's doing. Twitter/X? That company was limping along towards bankruptcy before he bought it--he shouldn't be blamed for any of that. If he decided to buy it and allow his deep pockets to keep it limping along for quite some time while he worked on getting it to profitability, then sure--you might have been able to count it as a success. As it stands? He's dug himself a pretty deep hole in the last year, and seems to keep digging it deeper rather than making progress, making it more and more difficult to eventually turn it around. It hasn't failed yet, but it seems much more likely to collapse due to the actions he's taken, not less.

 

[Samson16]

My point was that he's maybe no longer the best fit to maximize the value of the company for Tesla shareholders.

I think Apple thought the same way about Jobs when they gave him the boot to concentrate on maximizing shareholder value.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm not a worshiper of any man.

But you do have to admit that human nature is kinda funny if you can take the joke.

Elon sucks
Farley sucks
Mary Barra sucks
Oliver Blume sucks

They should all be fired.
Off with their heads!

(Because I don't like them.
Or my exhaust heat exchanger leaked. And my Powerboost battery is way too small. What an idiot Farley is)

I don't understand why they don't see what I clearly do.
?????

If I ran Ford, everyone would have multicontoured seats and Bluecruise 1.4 would have been deployed a year ago.

 

[JExpedition07]

If I ran Ford I’d be taking a little more risk to try and stop others from dominating the market. It’s not too late. I would be looking to roll out a universal charging infrastructure and partner with existing business like gas stations to try and get into the “fueling”’ market. I also would be developing a platform similar to GM “Ultium”. Granted, the platform is not necessary but I would say it’s beneficial as you can sell your platform to others. It is IMPARITIVE, that GM and Ford are independent of Tesla, it’s dangerous to become reliant, that’s where a corporation will lose its autonomy. They must use their own base architecture to stay alive and market dominant. To keep market dominance, some pain in the short term will be required. Risks will need to be taken. If Ford plans to stick with hydroformed steel frames and cold rolled steel panels none of the platform crap is needed but I think it’s a good move. Either way works for me if the end product is cost effective. On another note ultimately I don’t care for the gigapress that was mentioned ealirer. It saves the manufacturer time and money but it’s no good for me, expensive repairs when body work is needed. Add ins like plows and lifts not as easy. I’ll take the frame.

A pickup truck At its base has evolved much like a home has (gabled or hip roofs, windows, doors) to fit it use case well. You can evolve it, but you can’t revolutionize it….it all ready exists. The next revolution will be mass public transport or flying cars.

I’d like solid state to be cracked to get lighter batteries with massive amounts of energy density. This will close the gap between battery and gas energy density enough to make it worth it. This will allow for a lighter chassis, and more consumer friendly designs than what we are limited to now with electrolyte batteries. I am telling you these vehicles will be a lot nicer to make and live with when we get the energy density thing taken care of! Instead of a 9,000 pound monstrosity like the Hummer we will be back to 5,000 pound trucks that have an actual use case for the size and mass. They also won’t kill everyone and their brother in a wreck or pedestrian incident.

 

[Snakebitten]

If I ran Ford I’d be taking a little more risk to try and stop others from dominating the market. It’s not too late, many would like to believe so. But it’s not. I would be looking to roll out a universal charging infrastructure and partner with existing business like gas stations to try and get into the “fueling”’ market. I also would be developing a platform similar to GM “Ultium”. Granted, the platform is not necessary but I would say it’s beneficial as you can sell your platform to others. It is IMPARITIVE, that GM and Ford are independent of Tesla, it’s dangerous to become reliant, that’s where a corporation will lose its autonomy. They must use their own base architecture to stay alive and market dominant. To keep market dominance, some pain in the short term will be required. Risks will need to be taken. If Ford plans to stick with hydroformed steel frames and cold rolled steel panels none of the platform crap is needed. On annother note ultimately I don’t care for the gigapress that was mentioned ealirer. It saves the manufacturer time and money but it’s no good for me, expensive repairs when body work is needed. Add ins like plows and lifts not as easy. I’ll take the frame.

A pickup truck At its base has evolved much like a home has (gabled or hip roofs, windows, doors) to fit it use case well. You can evolve it, but you can’t revolutionize it….it all ready exists. I’d like solid stage to be cracked to get lighter batteries with massive amounts of energy density. This will close the gap between battery and gas energy density enough to make it worth it. This will allow for a lighter chassis, and more consumer friendly designs than what we are limited to now with electrolyte batteries. I am telling you these vehicles will be a lot nicer to make and live with when we get the energy density thing taken care of!

All makes perfect sense.
But those advancements are made by scientists and engineers.

CEO's are cut from a much different cloth. They're more politician than anything else these days. They carry the water for public scorn or praise.

 

[JExpedition07]

All makes perfect sense.
But those advancements are made by scientists and engineers.

CEO's are cut from a much different cloth. They're more politician than anything else these days. They carry the water for public scorn or praise.

All true snake, BUT the CEO and board can allocate funds and resources. If I were Ford I’d be pumping a LOT of money into solid state manufacturing research like Toyota, patent that battery design and manufacturing method. And sell that to Tesla and the rest. That’s how you secure market dominance for the next century. Own the process. Think of the 5.0’s cylinder lining process everyone is starting to borrow from Ford currently but on a much bigger and more long term scale!

It is a race worth running in, the winner has a big reward. I would not advise to sit at the starting line and watch. Toyota is making huge strides, if they crack this….they will be the #1 EV producer in the world for a lonnngggg time. And everyone will be buying Toyota batteries. Might as well make it Ford batteries (if you’re a Ford shareholder).

 

[Snakebitten]

I bet there's more R&D money being pumped into electric storage technology than you can shake a stick at. Worldwide too.

And not just by traditional automotive manufacturers. No telling how much venture capitalists are chasing the gold pot at the end of that rainbow.

 

[JExpedition07]

I bet there's more R&D money being pumped into electric storage technology than you can shake a stick at. Worldwide too.

And not just by traditional automotive manufacturers. No telling how much venture capitalists are chasing the gold pot at the end of that rainbow.

Agreed, the internal combustion engine has been legacy automakers core piece, the piece of expertise that protected them from outside threats. They can’t just become vehicle assemblers, they are going to need that new “core” to have an identity. They are going to need to have their own energy storage solutions (to replace the internal combustion engine). I cringe at the automakers who are going to be swallowed up, I see many that won’t be solvent in 15-20 years with the lack of reaction. Ford is teetering on the edge, not quite as bad as Nissan and some European makes, but they need to do more.

 

[HammaMan]

CT does have some revolutionary tech in it, just not something that really matters where it counts for EV range. The brain of their system takes several of ford's modules, combines it, and then more than 20x's its capability as well as having fully redundant computers. Ford came out swinging with AC output in both the PB and Lightning ala PPOB, and sync 4 + ADAS was ahead of most, but still underpowered. Tesla finally gets on board with AC out, and truly 1-ups ford in capability by having higher single outlet power (40 amps), an unheard of 110 amps of surge / LRA, while being able to send that power out right back down the EVSE at 48 amps in a simple system. Contrast that to ford's home backup requiring 8-10k$ for setup.

Tesla's same AC module that outputs AC is the same module that takes AC and converts it to DC to charge the vehicle, it also contains the 48v generation DC/DC side. On the lightning for instance, it needs 2 discrete inverters, an AC charger, and a DC/DC converter. 4 unique aluminum housed parts coming in around 150lbs vs tesla's single ~40lb unit. There's ways to use a mono cast part and still deliver the strength needed for frontal accessories. Tesla is out to simplify, not provide frontal accessory options. You can have your tesla any way you want it, so long as it's just like every other rolling off of the line.

 

[Samson16]

Agreed, the internal combustion engine has been legacy automakers core piece, the piece of expertise that protected them from outside threats. They can’t just become vehicle assemblers, they are going to need that new “core” to have an identity. They are going to need to have their own energy storage solutions (to replace the internal combustion engine). I cringe at the automakers who are going to be swallowed up, I see many that won’t be solvent in 15-20 years with the lack of reaction. Ford is teetering on the edge, not quite as bad as Nissan and some European makes, but they need to do more.

Or as a society we embrace the responsible use of our amazing, energy dense, and renewable natural resource…oil

 

[HammaMan]

I errored earlier on combined mass. The AWD CT w/ range extender and spare tire adds between 900-1200lbs. 6600lbs becomes ~7700lbs while the tri motor becomes ~8klbs. Base curb weight. Yikes. Payload still drops into 'nicely loaded PB territory'. The batt has a high voltage contactor assembly, proper armor and cooling systems, though they won't specifically state its mass. Configuration is different as it's going to be 3 or 4 shelf/rack layers due to packaging requirements of being a box vs 'bed'.

Then there's what occurs in the bed... Just the spare does this

Plus box-o-batts?

Maybe there's enough room for the spare to take up the rest of the bed floor?
C'mon man! It's just disappointing no matter how you look at it from a truck / usability standpoint.

 

[JExpedition07]

I happen to run into a video on Tik tok of a younger couple about my age taking a road trip in their new cyber truck with their 2 kids. When asked about charging they said how great it is to have 45 minutes to an hour with the kids at fuel ups every 270 miles. I am fully convinced typical CT owners are the type that enjoy smelling their own farts/ or Dutch ovening themselves after listening to them try and reason with that. LMAO.

“Yes, we love adding 5 hours to the trip between NY and Florida for charging stops. It’s so superior to that evil gas engine AND we can sit and play patty cake in a field with the kids!!” That comment with a totally serious face sent me rolling laughing.

 

[Samson16]

C'mon man! It's just disappointing no matter how you look at it from a truck / usability standpoint.

Agreed. The CyberTruck appears to be a cool toy and conversation piece thanks to your thorough research ?

What might be bigger albeit less S3XY news is what is going on with the new bigger battery cells from Texas??

Sponsored