Transfer Switch Gameplan - Thoughts?

[Kodiak]

I had a transfer switch (TS) installed many years ago. My hope was that it was wired for a bonded neutral generator and I would plug in the F-150 PB and it would just work. No such luck. The neutral and ground must be bonded together from the sub panel (transfer switch panel) to the main panel for normal operation. This is throwing the GFI breaker in the truck when I switch to the TS.

I have an electrician coming Thurs to look at the setup and see if it can work. The subpanel is an Eaton and I cannot see the exact model but most literature says Eaton can be used for bonded or floating generators.

My hope is that another breaker can be added in the subpanel that would disconnect the neutral and ground so the truck would be the neutral and ground through the 4 prong 30 amp connection. You would flip the breaker to disconnect the subpanel and activate that subpanel and flip the breaker to disconnect the ground and neutral isolating just the subpanel to utilize the F-150 PB.

Anyone see any issues with this theory? Any replies will be appreciated.

Sponsored

 

[Yves]

I had a transfer switch (TS) installed many years ago. My hope was that it was wired for a bonded neutral generator and I would plug in the F-150 PB and it would just work. No such luck. The neutral and ground must be bonded together from the sub panel (transfer switch panel) to the main panel for normal operation. This is throwing the GFI breaker in the truck when I switch to the TS.

I have an electrician coming Thurs to look at the setup and see if it can work. The subpanel is an Eaton and I cannot see the exact model but most literature says Eaton can be used for bonded or floating generators.

My hope is that another breaker can be added in the subpanel that would disconnect the neutral and ground so the truck would be the neutral and ground through the 4 prong 30 amp connection. You would flip the breaker to disconnect the subpanel and activate that subpanel and flip the breaker to disconnect the ground and neutral isolating just the subpanel to utilize the F-150 PB.

Anyone see any issues with this theory? Any replies will be appreciated.

I do have a Eaton generator panel and it works but mine is for bonded neutral generator so I have the triple breakers. I doubt that they can add an extra breaker for your neutral without some modification to the panel or the breaker. But I'm not an electrician....

 

[Hullguy]

I had a transfer switch (TS) installed many years ago. My hope was that it was wired for a bonded neutral generator and I would plug in the F-150 PB and it would just work. No such luck. The neutral and ground must be bonded together from the sub panel (transfer switch panel) to the main panel for normal operation. This is throwing the GFI breaker in the truck when I switch to the TS.

I have an electrician coming Thurs to look at the setup and see if it can work. The subpanel is an Eaton and I cannot see the exact model but most literature says Eaton can be used for bonded or floating generators.

My hope is that another breaker can be added in the subpanel that would disconnect the neutral and ground so the truck would be the neutral and ground through the 4 prong 30 amp connection. You would flip the breaker to disconnect the subpanel and activate that subpanel and flip the breaker to disconnect the ground and neutral isolating just the subpanel to utilize the F-150 PB.

Anyone see any issues with this theory? Any replies will be appreciated.

If your electrician can get the 2- 3 pole breakers with the neutral wire it is doable. But expensive. You may find it cheaper to change out the old transfer switch to a new neutral switching transfer switch.

 

[Kodiak]

If your electrician can get the 2- 3 pole breakers with the neutral wire it is doable. But expensive. You may find it cheaper to change out the old transfer switch to a new neutral switching transfer switch.

Yes I thought about that too. My hope was that breaking the connection to the main panel for the ground and neutral would be an easy do. I would just need to switch 2 breakers in the transfer sub panel instead of just one, then switch them both back when the main power is restored. However it is deeper than my knowledge goes and may not even be possible or safe or at code.

If that fails I may have to go with the Generac 6852 model and replace the entire sub panel.

 

[Hullguy]

Yes I thought about that too. My hope was that breaking the connection to the main panel for the ground and neutral would be an easy do. I would just need to switch 2 breakers in the transfer sub panel instead of just one, then switch them both back when the main power is restored. However it is deeper than my knowledge goes and may not even be possible or safe or at code.

If that fails I may have to go with the Generac 6852 model and replace the entire sub panel.

You really want the power transfer to be a one step process

 

[HammaMan]

You really want the power transfer to be a one step process

2nd this -- If you forget to flip the neutral, the circuit imbalance could see much higher voltage on one leg with much lower on the other. That could kill quite a few things.

 

[Kodiak]

OK electricians were just here to go over my existing transfer switch setup. It really is not possible to correctly do it with what I have. They were showing me on the Generac 6852 where it has the switch built into the main mechanism that automatically disconnects the bonding to the main panel for the neutral. They said that is what is causing the trucks GFCI switch. They said the only way to get what I have working would be to go into the panel and remove that connection when I wanted to use the generator, but they said I should not do that. They said that automatic switch for the Generac is the key for safety.

So they said they could switch out the existing sub panel with the Generac for about 1 to 1.5 hours of work. Most everything is already there. So my situation is spend about $700 to get the Generac sub panel + installed and use the 30 amp plug from the PB to power my sub panel thus the select circuits. Or spend about $400 for a butt load of extension cords.

I think I am going to go with the $700 and get the sub panel that will work with the PB. I live in a neighborhood where the power goes out when the wind blows, and we are the last to get repaired. I just used an extension cord last week for a short power outage and it kind of sucked so the sub panel will probably be the way to go.

Any others have that Generac 6852 and have it working for their PB?

 

[HammaMan]

You can make an interconnect dogbone of sorts to safely connect the powerboost to the house that does not have neutral switching interconnect. I've simplified the approach due to PMs for safe easy workarounds. Costs about $50 and 15 minutes. edit, new version $38+tax.

https://www.amazon.com/L14-30R-Generator-Locking-Connector-Receptacle/dp/B077HQ6BD9

https://www.amazon.com/yodotek-Generator-Distribution-Indicator-Household/dp/B07TYFP4D1

Cut off the head that has 4 plugs, connect up the new female end, do not connect the ground on the added end. Label the dogbone. Due to its short size, it's got little potential for any other use. You could make a full cord but it's not advised.

 

[ryanc111]

Any others have that Generac 6852 and have it working for their PB?

Yep, I have it working successfully.

 

[Antimatter22]

If your power goes out as often as you say I'd just get the Generac panel and call it a day. I've run extension cords around my house from the truck a handful or more times and it sucks, especially when power is restored a lot quicker than the electric company quoted lol

 

[HammaMan]

I just did this exact thing and it works great. Had an electrician come out and install a generator interlock setup on our two cabins. Made a “interconnect dogbone" connector without ground attached, plugged into a 50 ft cable going into the box. Runs our well pumps and everything with ease.

$1200 total for 2x interlocks (one for each house) plus new service line for one of the houses.

Smart man!

 

[Hullguy]

I just did this exact thing and it works great. Had an electrician come out and install a generator interlock setup on our two cabins. Made a “interconnect dogbone" connector without ground attached, plugged into a 50 ft cable going into the box. Runs our well pumps and everything with ease.

$1200 total for 2x interlocks (one for each house) plus new service line for one of the houses.

Vomit!

 

[Hullguy]

OK electricians were just here to go over my existing transfer switch setup. It really is not possible to correctly do it with what I have. They were showing me on the Generac 6852 where it has the switch built into the main mechanism that automatically disconnects the bonding to the main panel for the neutral. They said that is what is causing the trucks GFCI switch. They said the only way to get what I have working would be to go into the panel and remove that connection when I wanted to use the generator, but they said I should not do that. They said that automatic switch for the Generac is the key for safety.

So they said they could switch out the existing sub panel with the Generac for about 1 to 1.5 hours of work. Most everything is already there. So my situation is spend about $700 to get the Generac sub panel + installed and use the 30 amp plug from the PB to power my sub panel thus the select circuits. Or spend about $400 for a butt load of extension cords.

I think I am going to go with the $700 and get the sub panel that will work with the PB. I live in a neighborhood where the power goes out when the wind blows, and we are the last to get repaired. I just used an extension cord last week for a short power outage and it kind of sucked so the sub panel will probably be the way to go.

Any others have that Generac 6852 and have it working for their PB?

I have the Generac and it works with my Powerboost. the extension cords work as well. But for simplicitys sake I’d go with the transfer switch. Any other work arounds do not past muster with the National Electrical Code!

 

[Hullguy]

You can make an interconnect dogbone of sorts to safely connect the powerboost to the house that does not have neutral switching interconnect. I've simplified the approach due to PMs for safe easy workarounds. Costs about $50 and 15 minutes. edit, new version $38+tax.

https://www.amazon.com/L14-30R-Generator-Locking-Connector-Receptacle/dp/B077HQ6BD9

https://www.amazon.com/yodotek-Generator-Distribution-Indicator-Household/dp/B07TYFP4D1

Cut off the head that has 4 plugs, connect up the new female end, do not connect the ground on the added end. Label the dogbone. Due to its short size, it's got little potential for any other use. You could make a full cord but it's not advised.

Also do not confuse the above cord for the one harbor freight sells that looks similar found here...
https://www.harborfreight.com/gener...ries/3-ft-20-amp-generator-adapter-57713.html
Unlike the linked amazon unit, this cord only uses 1 phase. I have not confirmed if the other phase runs into the splitter rubber area or not.

I’ve read a lot of your posts on other subjects and have learned a lot from them. But this is wrong and dangerous. I don’t have time to draw a picture. You and I both know that an open electrical pathway doesn’t work. And this is what you create when you cut the ground off!!!

 

[HammaMan]

I’ve read a lot of your posts on other subjects and have learned a lot from them. But this is wrong and dangerous. I don’t have time to draw a picture. You and I both know that an open electrical pathway doesn’t work. And this is what you create when you cut the ground off!!!

I respect your opinions on the subject, but "because _____ says so" isn't a valid response on your suggestion to the risk involved. The run from the vehicle to the outlet is unnecessarily protected by GFI in whole. The outlet is connected to a neutral bonded ground on its run from the panel to the outlet. What fault path do you believe exists on this configuration that doesn't on a utility derived source of electrons..

It's my opinion of where this issue pops up is thinking back to no-ground systems that aren't used today. Those systems could have all sorts of issues with voltage accumulation due to no earthing zero points. This configuration does contain an earth bond. All of the panel's GFI functionality is intact. There's no risk of transients or other similar oddities that appear with ungrounded systems.

So please describe what scenario you see as being a point of contention for this exact use case, a GFI protected power source that can deliver precisely 31 amps before instantaneous OCP kicks in. Code is written for the least common denominator. The outlet is wired for such. This special device-specific interconnect dog-bone's existence should occur only labeled for use with the PPOB while connecting to a NEC compliant structure, removing LCD. The design being a short dog bone significantly reduces its utility elsewhere.

Sponsored