Powerboost or RamCharger

[Samson16]

It's not really a new concept. Diesel-generator/Electric-motor locomotive. Been around a very long time.

Not exactly mon frere. Diesel electric locomotives do not use giant battery banks as storage devices. They drive the electric motors with the diesel generators.

Find me an example of an EREV that never needs to plug in. I can't find one. Hopefully the Ramcharger can be the first.

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[Samson16]

It's possible that I'll consider a Japanese vehicle after the funeral of the last US Veteran who fought in the Pacific, but I wouldn't place a big bet on that!

Wow, so no Germans either? We fought the Chinese in Korea and Vietnam as well as of course Koreans and Vietnamese. Sourcing of parts and components becomes tricky as our exclusion list grows irrespective of its' noble beginnings.

Edit: That came off harsh after re-reading it. I apologize. It was unnecessary.

 

[dochawk]

Wow, so no Germans either?

Improbable, but more likely.

My family was on the west coast, so my grandfather & great uncles were in the war in the Pacific, which has left it more personal and sensitive.

And, no, I won't be buying a vehicle from Red China, either.

BTW, the Ramcharger uses the same v6 (pentagram? something like that) that they use in their trucks,,but using it as a generator. [an odd choice, IM!HO, but it makes sense for getting it out there, I suppose.] It wouldn't be limited to particular RPM/vehicle speed combinations as it would if propelling, andit could produce peak power for charging regardless of vehicle speed.

 

[Snakebitten]

A Hybrid is the mixing of fossil fuel and electricity for locomotion.

It doesn't have to be all one or the other.

Increasing fuel economy has been a quest of automotive engineering for decades. Leveraging electricity has proven to be logical and legitimate at increasing fuel economy.

I have a pure EV Mach-E GTPE
I have a Hybrid F150 and previously had a Cmax.
I have several pure ICE vehicles.

There's so many ways to approach the obstacles that have so far impeded trucks from breaking through the barriers that cars have made great progress at.

The Ramcharger approach offers an opportunity that might raise several bars for a truck to accomplish a mix of power/fuel efficiency/range. I don't think there's anything stupid about the engineering regarding.

 

[dochawk]

Oh, I'm not calling it stupid at all. I just find the decision not to use a purpose designed engine odd.

Engine's are most efficient at particular RPM and such, so I'd expect one designed for that generator mission to be more efficient, possibly like the Atkinson cycle engine in the maverick.

Then again, maybe one to produce that much power is farther away, and using a known design is a sensible compromise. ?‍

And I can't help but wonder if the future holds aftermarket (or even factory?) conversions to swap out the engine and use the space for more battery . . .

 

[Samson16]

I meant that diesel electric locomotives don't have the charge/discharge battery chemistry issues that our ethereal Ramcharger will need to overcome or at least manage.

 

[Antimatter22]

Find me an example of an EREV that never needs to plug in. I can't find one. Hopefully the Ramcharger can be the first.

I think the BMW i3 had a version of EREV.

 

[Antimatter22]

Correct, but what’s the advantage of an electric vehicle with a gas power generator?

The hybrid thing like the power boost I can understand, but this Ramcharger thing is about as smart as a Tesla with a Honda generator stuck in the hatch

Assuming the Ramcharger specs match their announcement at an estimated 145 miles of EV range, that would be a lot of electric only driving for most people. Most PHEVs can only do like 20-40 miles of electric driving, but even then they're very power limited vs driving with the gas engine running as well. Some people may not be able to drive to and from work or errands on EV only with that range unless they can charge at work.

For me, there's extremely limited electric chargers worth a damn back in BFE where my hometown is. Being a 2 hour drive I'd probably need a 400+ range rated EV to make it there and back in middle of winter for a quick day trip that we make often since I couldn't charge. The Ramcharger would allow me to likely do 90-95% of my driving on EV only and allow me to go back home without worrying about range.

There's too many 'what ifs' because Ram hasn't been putting out information about it. Can't say I'm very confident in it because of that.

 

[HammaMan]

The only benefit to having an ICE powered setup like this is being able to run the ICE at peak efficiency plus in cold weather having the unlimited heat from combustion. However their generator is AC>DC> charge battery >DC>AC. All of that power conversion isn't free, nor is charging. EVs lose about 10% of the supplied energy vs stored energy. Now running it through the power conversion realistically is 5%, 10%, 5% so 20% energy loss just in storage/conversion.

The biggest gains for the ramcharger is full regen braking, which a PHEV powerboost would be more than capable of being able to handle. They could drop the transfer case, put a new 20kW BISG on the motor, and make the the front axle completely electric (w/ locker). That'd free up room for a 20kWh battery while giving it ~40 miles of electric only range.

I meant that diesel electric locomotives don't have the charge/discharge battery chemistry issues that our ethereal Ramcharger will need to overcome or at least manage.

Precisely, that however opens up a new realm of "engine braking" in that like locomotives, electrically powered axles can follow the locomotive braking concept in dumping the load into resistors. It's like engine braking but for electric vehicles. As it is now, the cybertruck for instance in "regen" braking reaches a saturation point where the battery is too hot and it can't regen brake at all. A 'small' resistor load bank could augment the whole engine braking thing.

A locomotive's "dynamic brake" is literally a massive bank of resistors that provide stopping power for its electric axles so it doesn't have to rely on friction brakes. Scania does something similar in their large diesel trucks but the retarder is hydraulically operated (vs diesel brakes) and is an amazing piece of tech.

 

[Antimatter22]

My guess the use of their V6 is the be able to able to charge the battery at a fast enough rate to allow halfway decent long range towing, whatever that may be. It may run at a set RPM while charging, but depending on the load requirement it may require more power to maintain that same RPM at a high load level.

For example we have 96L Cummins generators at work. Loaded or unloaded they maintain 1800rpm. Unloaded it uses like 25gph but uses 200gph when fully loaded to 3MW. Could be a similar situation here.

Purely guessing though. Maybe they'll release info soon, we'll see.

 

[HammaMan]

My guess the use of their V6 is the be able to able to charge the battery at a fast enough rate to allow halfway decent long range towing, whatever that may be. It may run at a set RPM while charging, but depending on the load requirement it may require more power to maintain that same RPM at a high load level.

For example we have 96L Cummins generators at work. Loaded or unloaded they maintain 1800rpm. Unloaded it uses like 25gph but uses 200gph when fully loaded to 3MW. Could be a similar situation here.

Purely guessing though. Maybe they'll release info soon, we'll see.

Their use of the V6 is because they had the motor on the shelf to use. A 4 cylinder would have been a little rougher running and would have had to be run at higher revs in order to output the 130kW+ the generator needs to put out.

 

[EricR]

I wouldn’t buy a Dodge…….

I wouldn't buy a Fiat.

 

[Kodiak]

Their use of the V6 is because they had the motor on the shelf to use. A 4 cylinder would have been a little rougher running and would have had to be run at higher revs in order to output the 130kW+ the generator needs to put out.

From the information that I have found out that V6 Pentastar is more of a low RPM workhorse. This makes it perfect for a PHEV that only uses the ICE to feed the battery. The engine is a tried and true, on the shelf ICE generator that produces the most of its power at the low RPM end to help sip gas instead of guzzling it.

Now I have no personal knowledge of this and I "read it on the internet" so take if for what it is worth.

They say it could have a 130+ mile EV range but even it that ends up being a realistic 100+ miles in real world usage, that would be outstanding for most people and most situations. For me I could see myself only filling up the tank half way unless I plan on a big trip. Then I would probably drain the battery about every 4 months just so I could use the ICE and use up the gas to put some fresh gas in it. Easy usage for the ICE and it should last considerably longer as the "per mile" usage for the ICE in the truck will be minimal.

I am glad to see RAM stretching the tech to produce this PHEV and I think for many people living in the more rural parts of the country this could be an excellent option, if they pull it off. My hope is that the V2 PB would go in this direction if it is a success. Ford probably has engineers working on something like this but would wait to see the Ramcharger reception and performance before any trigger pulling.

More options and envelope pushing is always a good thing.

 

[Samson16]

I think the BMW i3 had a version of EREV.

It did apparently! Unfortunately it’s tiny ICE and gas tank don’t directly correlate to the Ramcharger approach.

 

[dochawk]

Then I would probably drain the battery about every 4 months just so I could use the ICE and use up the gas to put some fresh gas in it.

One of the guys in my Cadillac club bought his wife a PHEV with a relatively short stated range. She learned to drive it "just so" to cover her daily commute on electric, getting home at 0.

After a few months, it put up a message to the effect of, "c'mon, lady, the ICE has to run from time to time to keep things working right!". (ok, not in those words, but that was the gist of it.

Currently I'm going through the after effects of having drained a tank for weight (it was off the car), and being grossly forgetful about how old the gas in it was (I was thinking of two months, and the most recent was about nine.

It went straight into dark gas container, and there into the tank of my '98 F-150, which refused to run after a couple of days.

Pumping it out into glass carboys, well . . . it would be a great color for cask aged bourbon, but . . .

It's getting better after diluting the gas more, but I think it wi9ll be mainlining Techron for a few more tanks.

Ford probably has engineers working on something like this but would wait to see the Ramcharger reception and performance before any trigger pulling.

they'd be downright idiots if they're not! There has been speculation in other threads that they need to wait for the 2028 update.

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