PowerBoost inspired hybrid house

[HammaMan]

You should check to see what power plans are available with your utility including for EVs. So long as it doesn't require a seperate meter and/or API access to the vehicle's online account for controlling charging, you may have some super cheap overnight rates that make one of the EG4 hybrid inverters make the most sense. Since they can backfeed and the current transformers can go further upstream, you can buy power when it's cheap and run completely off battery during peak. Here our super off peak rate is 3 cents / kWh out the door, taxes/fees included.

You don't need panels to take advantage of such things, though panels are so cheap right now it doesn't make sense to not attach them.

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[fwunder]

You should check to see what power plans are available with your utility including for EVs. So long as it doesn't require a seperate meter and/or API access to the vehicle's online account for controlling charging, you may have some super cheap overnight rates that make one of the EG4 hybrid inverters make the most sense. Since they can backfeed and the current transformers can go further upstream, you can buy power when it's cheap and run completely off battery during peak. Here our super off peak rate is 3 cents / kWh out the door, taxes/fees included.

You don't need panels to take advantage of such things, though panels are so cheap right now it doesn't make sense to not attach them.

Thanks HammaMan. Our utility does offer TOU ( Time of Use ) program but, unfortunately it does require a "smart" meter which is not available to us yet. The Victron ESS ( Energy Storage System ) supports this.

On a different note, I finally gathered some anecdotal evidence from a Lightning owner with a Victron Quattro system identical to what I planned on building the the dreaded "ground fault error" does, in fact, occur with no way out. However, I also gathered evidence that the Eg4 Chargeverter GC does, in fact, work with the ProPower system and although I will have to redraw my plans it seems like a better solution with support for a wide range of "dirty" generators. The new version really offers virtually the same functionality I would get from the Quattros.

I soooo wish Ford would bring back our remote generator monitor to FordPass!

 

[HammaMan]

Keep in mind the hybrid functionality of the PB's generator is what sets it apart. By moving to a battery configuration you're off-loading the hybrid part entirely so it's really a function of turning fuel into electricity. For "generator" you're best just using a cheapie connected to a monster power supply (roughly $700 in parts for a cheapie gen and a ~3kW "battery charger" -- you don't need a dedicated LFP charger, just a generator with a tank of a certain size to run a power supply for a certain period of time). At the same time for ~$1k you can get solar panels to do the same thing (which is why an AIO makes the most sense). The PB doesn't really fit the bill for this scenario. For a boondocking camper that's a different story by not carrying a generator and running off battery overnight.

Then of course you could just build your own 'generator' by sourcing a gas engine and some alternators that can be modified for 56v output. You can also buy DC generators out of china for this purpose specifically -- often sold under "EV range extender" verbiage.

 

[fwunder]

As I said, the primary reason for the battery backup system is the UPS or standby generator function and to power my critical circuits when my PB is not available. We have had to return home early from camping trips to plug in the truck. Since I have had the truck it's done its job well powering my critical circuits., again, when it's available.

I have a 8kW portable Generac XP8000E and a Honda 2200i. The Generac is noisy and a gas hog, but does function fine. I usually configure it with instructions so a neighbor can start it and manage the transfer switch. The little Honda was great for camping before I got the PB. Now I use it around the property when I need remote power.

IMHO the PB will make a great addition to the battery backup system in the event of extended grid down or, when I do add solar, to supplement battery recharge. It's quiet, fuel efficient and has the power to push the chargeverter to its limit.

 

[Snakebitten]

Such a cool thread.

As an RV full timer, I've never had to fuss with the Powerboost ProPower bonding concerns. It's just plug&play and enjoy.
But my tiny house DNA has its roots in off-grid fantasies, so the discussions of threads like this always draw me in.

Who'd have thought that a pickup truck forum would be such a catalyst for so many conversations regarding? And yes, Ford, bring back our FordPass ProPower tools please.

 

[Kodiak]

And not only give us our PPOB back on the app but hurry up and release some details on the Super Duty PB and if it is something like a PB Version 2.

 

[Eskram]

I spent 30 minutes today explaining how awesome the PB is to good friend with a 99 F350. I let him drive it and he really liked the power delivery and torque.

Then I told him about the PPOB, and I think that might put him in the market. He's a contractor, and the idea of 7.2kw anywhere pretty much sold him. Though I don't think the F150 is actually enough truck for him.

Now if there was a SD PowerBoost...

 

[Snakebitten]

I wouldn't likely trade my KingRanch Powerboost in for an F350 7.3/6.8 Powerboost.

But that's only because I'd give it to my son and then have him drop me off at the dealership.

 

[gb7FRz26]

Since owning my 2023 7.2kW PowerBoost,

I do love me some Victron hardware but honestly if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound here - EG4 12K or 18K to run the whole house, get the slightly cheaper 14.3 kWh EG4 48v wall battery, and then an EG4 Chargeverter between the truck and the batteries. Two would be better (redundancy, not running one at 100% and all that), set at 55-60A each you'd be maxing out the PB 7.2kw output. Added bonus here is you're all set to add some solar if you choose.
Can't remember which inverter I saw recently but it would work as a grid-tie without ever selling back to the grid because of extra CT's on the legs coming from the meter. So you only had one 240v breaker in/out of the inverter and it had islanding capability too - naturally the grid goes down and it stops inverting. But you could switch off main breaker, change some settings and then bring your house back up on battery.

 

[fwunder]

Thanks, but I just prefer Victron. Perhaps it comes from my old yacht captain days. Lots of folks preferred motor-sail yachts because of their ability to motor as well as sail. They did neither particularly well. I'm not dissing Eg4 at all but I'm more comfortable with Victron's modular approach. Oh, and the toroidal transformers in the inverters are truly impressive!!

 

[HammaMan]

Toroidal are now 'old school'. Modern inverters negate their requirement. Switching circuits thanks in part to EVs have made pure sine wave inverters quite ubiquitous. The parts and 'designs' are now everywhere and the cost is such that it doesn't make sense to put in large transformers now. Victron is good stuff, but behind the curve of modern design.

 

[gb7FRz26]

Toroidal are now 'old school'. Modern inverters negate their requirement. Switching circuits thanks in part to EVs have made pure sine wave inverters quite ubiquitous. The parts and 'designs' are now everywhere and the cost is such that it doesn't make sense to put in large transformers now. Victron is good stuff, but behind the curve of modern design.

The lightweight Fronius solar inverters in the mid to late 2000's (I think) kicked off that trend, at least for high voltage/current applications. High frequency solid state switch mode supplies and higher efficiency than the old ways. Same thing the ProPower Onboard inverter is doing.

 

[MomaxLand]

On a different note, I finally gathered some anecdotal evidence from a Lightning owner with a Victron Quattro system identical to what I planned on building the the dreaded "ground fault error" does, in fact, occur with no way out.

So the dogbone-with-ground-cut trick doesn't work here? Any idea what specifically trips it in that case, and whether that's unique to Victron or would also apply to e.g. Gen Input on an EG4?

 

[Davexxxx]

Careful, you may inspire me to spend money

I have been contemplating a similar application. We currently have battery (2x Powerwalls) backed solar with important loads on a subpanel. I suspect our current controller (Tesla?) may be able to determine when to use a) utility grid b) solar c) batteries and/or d) truck, truck playing the role of generator. If not, I am considering a transfer switch between the solar/batteries and the truck power. So, if grid is down and solar/batteries deplete the system could use truck power.

Please do keep us informed as to your progress with these Victrons, they might have a use in my application.

Anybody reading this know of anyone who has added truck/generator to a battery backed solar system?

Nate Yarbrough, at Explorist Life has camper upgrade plans, that include shore power and generator ties, in the same set up.

https://shop.explorist.life/product-category/all-products/plans-and-diagrams/solar-wiring-diagrams/

This where I got the majority of the supplies I used for the system (600ah / 1200W PV / 2400W invert/charge) I installed on my camper.

Victron inverter chargers, have built in transfer switches and "pass through" ability and with the flick of a button on their app, you can adjust the input limits, so as to not over load the incoming source, while also the same ability of how much to send to the battery bank.

He recently expanded his business to include marine and land based off grid applications.

I don't know anything about how they work at 240V but Victron is solid gear and has been used in large marine applications, for a long time.

 

[Davexxxx]

@HammaMan

You should know I'm currently having lots of discussion with Victron experts. You may be correct with regard to the PB GFI issues. Trying to work it out but right now it is looking like the chargeverter option may make more sense. Might be a little less convenient, but I would save a little by going with split phase Multiplus instead of Quattro. And give me more generator options ( I have three ). Still digging!

I used a Multiplus 3K on my camper build. It and the Powerboost play perfectly well together. No issues at all. Plug n play.

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