Using Hybrid Generator to power the house

[GolfR]

Not sure why you quoted one of my posts, though it seems Hullguy drew your primary fire.

I too have a MSEE.

Also, if you go far enough back some people tried to live in caves, but were sometimes eaten by bears or froze to death. What does that have to do with anything?

And the accident rate for people travelling by buckboard with solid wheels and axles and no seat belts was higher too when running from outlaws.

If only times were different now, or we somehow acquired new knowledge over time...

If you have 2 degrees in EE and a Master Electrician education, but you don't understand why telling people to cut the ground connection coming from a 30Amp 240V external power source, then I guess we've all said all we can say.

I apologize, I didn’t mean to quote your post, it was embedded with Jimbos. I understand exactly what isolating the ground does. I also understand that most people in this country (even some that own a powerboost) can’t afford to pay an electrician 1000s of dollars to put in a secondary transfer switch panel. Personally, I have a simple transfer switch and I’m not about to tear apart my basement walls to wire in a neutral switching panel.

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[Gros Ventre]

The "Bonded Neutral" Discussion has been sidelined. Ford built the PB that way not because of the NEC, it is a requirement of OSHA for a worksite generator. The PB generator can be legitimately set up as a floating neutral generator and still be compliant with current NEC rules. Ford should come out with a procedure to change the PB generator over. The work around of opening the ground wire between the truck and house is not safe. The workaround of installing a neutral switching breaker & panel is costly and is compliant with the NEC. I have found Ford's silence on this curious. I'm sure there are familes out there that bought the PB option because they expected to be able to plug in their house in an emergency only to find that it doesn't work because...

 

[BLoflin]

The "Bonded Neutral" Discussion has been sidelined. Ford built the PB that way not because of the NEC, it is a requirement of OSHA for a worksite generator. The PB generator can be legitimately set up as a floating neutral generator and still be compliant with current NEC rules. Ford should come out with a procedure to change the PB generator over. The work around of opening the ground wire between the truck and house is not safe. The workaround of installing a neutral switching breaker & panel is costly and is compliant with the NEC. I have found Ford's silence on this curious. I'm sure there are familes out there that bought the PB option because they expected to be able to plug in their house in an emergency only to find that it doesn't work because...

Good summary Gros Venture.

My thoughts, in my opinion, Ford will NOT ever release or document or a method to "un-bond" the N-G.

1. It is built as designed
2. It is working as built
3. It works fine for giving emergency power to appliances during power outage using extension cords (not by tying into the house breakers)
4. There is a solution (albeit more expensive) if you really want to tie into house breakers (switching neutral transfer switch)
5. Though Ford enjoyed the good press of sending/using PB's during the big power outage (here in TX last year), they NEVER talked about it being used as a (partial) whole house power solution, only with extension cords.
6. The product that IS being positioned by FORD as a "whole house" emergency power solution is the Lightning and that solution is even more expensive, and STILL not well documented and understood yet (as it's not out in the field yet).

So for PB, I believe the only answers are to use extension cords for specific appliances/tools, or pay for a Netural Switching Transfer Switch installation, or take your chances with your life and property.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I believe you're correct... Still-in-all, it'd be nice if Ford would step up to the plate. Frankly, I suspect the inverter is case grounded to the frame. So, in order to make it a floating neutral, they'd have to find a way to insulate the case from the frame. This is no small task...

 

[RichW]

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...rocUid=G2186615&vFilteringEnabled=False&div=f

Important info when adding a 30amp outlet to your house panel for receiving generator power from the HEV f150.

Excellent link, I've ben watching a number of YouTube vids on this and it comes down to the bonded Neutral and ground which must be isolated at the house to avoid the feedback fault indicator on the F150. Not a big deal but you need an electrician . I haven't installed this as yet but will be shortly and will post once the project is completed. I'm trusting the pain $ will go away instantly when the grid goes down and someone says something like , " nice truck- you should keep this one." ( OK, I know I'm reaching but hope springs eternal right ?)

 

[Spiffy]

Jimbo…
Good idea, stay on your high horse and ride off. Since you decided to attempt to insult me directly, I should mention I have two degrees in EE, and passed the master electrician exam after studying for a day so that I could rewire my house and have it all inspected. Saved me thousands of dollars vs paying someone like you. None of it was hard so don’t get too carried away with how impressed you are with yourself. Much of the stuff in the code book is there because electricians don’t actually understand how to read wiring diagrams or do simple math.

You can talk all you want about how everything should be done to code but the reality is that most houses in this country aren’t actually wired to the book. The code has changed over the years so older houses are not up to date. I’m sure you know this because Im sure you get giddy every time you walk into an older house and charge the homeowner thousands of dollars to “bring things up to code because it’s not safe”. The house I grew up in 40 years ago and my parents still own doesn’t have a single GFCI and it was wired by a master electrician. A very high percentage of homes aren’t wired to your rule bible which changes every year because some manufacture lobbied to convince the consortium that something that has been done for 50 years isn’t “safe” anymore so that they can sell $50 breakers instead of $5 ones. Anyone who has had to install arc fault breakers knows exactly what I’m talking about.

I grew up in a house that was still tube and knob on the second floor. The fuse was a thinner wire strung from one knob to another for 4 inches. Overload would burn out the wire.

 

[MLH]

I grew up in a house without a ground wire. I still own it. We installed a new 200 amp box with a ground but the wires to all the receptacles still don’t have a ground and there are thousands if not millions of homes this way. No one has been electrocuted in my old home place in 85 years.

 

[Spiffy]

I grew up in a house without a ground wire. I still own it. We installed a new 200 amp box with a ground but the wires to all the receptacles still don’t have a ground and there are thousands if not millions of homes this way. No one has been electrocuted in my old home place in 85 years.

 

[Spiffy]

When I was 5 I kept sticking a butter knife in the toaster. I think I enjoyed the kick.
My father and grandfather were both electricians. I was naturally fascinated by juice. I got shocked so many times that I got basically immune.
My dad used to say it's the fall off the ladder that kills you. I'm not sure he was right.

 

[dafish]

argh

 

[dafish]

Such an old disagreement. This has been hashed over repeatedly. Search is your friend.

Things to consider:

1) GFCI does not require a ground to protect from harm or death. Please don't accept I've said that, look for yourself!

2) Are you familiar with the wiring of a NEMA 10-30R? Granted a past standard, but very common still, and was at one time widely used in homes. What might an L14-30 to 10-30R cable offer?

3) Some of us expect a solution that is as portable as the truck is.

 

[Spiffy]

I have another question. On my dash the propower display screen showes the split 120v use. It starts with 200 watts being the lowest voltage used. Range is 200w to 3600w

On the Ford pass phone app the currently used wattage is 270 watts. It's an outside light. That light draws 70 watts but Ford pass says I'm using 270 watts.
The truck app/screen is also showing 270 watts.

If i turn off the wattage draw the Ford pass app says 0 watts and the truck says 200watts. " the lowest number that it starts with.

If i read the phones Fordpass usage app do I subtract 200 watts from stated number? Same with the trucks screen?
This is only on one leg for simplicity.

 

[Snakebitten]

Good question.
I knew about the Sync screen 200 watt starting point and never really understood why. But I hadn't noticed whether it or FordPass was actually starting at 200 watts when reporting draw.

 

[Spiffy]

Ford pass app starts at 0 but reports the same as truck. Truck reports 270 . 200w plus the load. In my case the load is 70w. So 270w.
The Ford pass starts at 0 but reports 270w. Also.
I'm sure fordpass is just mirroring the truck.
I just was wondering if we should subtract 200w from what ever load.

I do know that the inverter in my 2016 is a 200w inverter. I wonder if there is two inverters or more in my hybrid. One in the center console to supply 120v to the dash and rear seat 120v outlets. And then possibly two other 15amp inverters in the drive section. Someone said there are two 15 amp inverters. I know the dash outlet is not 15amp.

 

[dochawk]

My dad used to say it's the fall off the ladder that kills you. I'm not sure he was right.

He's not.

Noone has ever been hurt by falling.

It's that sudden stop when you're done . . .

[when I was in college, there was an avid motorcyclist at a place where I consulted. He pointed out that, when flying over the handle bars, the math works just as well to define yourself as the stationary center of the universe. The catch is that you're about to get smacked by a planet . . .]

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