Lithium-ion Car Battery

[tsigwing]

Looks like starter batteries are becoming available. On my other vehicle, someone has replaced theirs with this one and so far so good.

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[FaaWrenchBndr]

I didn’t think the charging system could properly charge a lithium battery, at least not on the new F150s

 

[tsigwing]

Same issues are happening with the C8. At least with forscan you can attempt to modify the SOC %, no such luck with the GM encrypted system.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm all for an LFP Auxiliary with its own BMS, or "parallel buddy battery" behind the AGM starter battery. Afterall, I've done so.
But I'm not sure I'm ready to stuff a non lead/acid starter battery under the hood of a vehicle designed for AGM. I don't even think I need a better solution than I already have. (credit to HammaMan)

 

[FaaWrenchBndr]

I'm all for an LFP Auxiliary with its own BMS, or "parallel buddy battery" behind the AGM starter battery. Afterall, I've done so.
But I'm not sure I'm ready to stuff a non lead/acid starter battery under the hood of a vehicle designed for AGM. I don't even think I need a better solution than I already have. (credit to HammaMan)

so you’re pretty well versed with this. With the factory charging system needs some kind of tweaks or a ForScan programming.

 

[Snakebitten]

so you’re pretty well versed with this. With the factory charging system needs some kind of tweaks or a ForScan programming.

I think I did the Forscan edit many years ago when it first surfaced on this site. But I can't remember if I did it to my 2021 or the special order 2022 that I currently own. And I think I only raised the value to 90%?

Regardless, that was long before the current updated battery charging strategy Ford released. And with the LFP Auxiliary, I think the fan speed 5 charging voltage, the Ford shortcomings are conquered anyway.

 

[FaaWrenchBndr]

I think I did the Forscan edit many years ago when it first surfaced on this site. But I can't remember if I did it to my 2021 or the special order 2022 that I currently own. And I think I only raised the value to 90%?

Regardless, that was long before the current updated battery charging strategy Ford released. And with the LFP Auxiliary, I think the fan speed 5 charging voltage, the Ford shortcomings are conquered anyway.

Much thanks…….appreciate ya

 

[Porpoise Hork]

The biggest problem is that AGM and lithium batteries have completely different charging strategies and using the wrong strategy can damage the battery or reduce its lifespan. That's even if Ford's BMS will play nice with a lithium only 12v battery in the first place. Even with increasing the SOC from the default 80% to 95-100% it doesn't change how Ford's BMS applies voltage and current to the primary battery. Chances are very high that it will throw a code or fail to allow the correct voltage/current to the lithium battery. The Ford BMS logic would need to be recoded for the different battery chemistry otherwise it'd be nothing but headaches. Even with marked lithium drop-in replacements with their own BMS and cell heating chances are it would be problematic.

We can get away with the piggyback lithium packs because the BMS detects the primary as an AGM and doesn't freak out due to it "seeing" expected battery characteristics like voltage setpoints and charge acceptance which are typical of this battery type but completely different than with a lithium cell.

 

[Bluegrass]

The Ford BMS system is not very well understood on any forum.
It is programmed for an AGM only, to meet that design needs over the long term plus add control features such as reduced charge just after engine starting to take load off a cold engine, then increase the charge rate as needed.
Charge voltage is limited to 14.8 max for AGM cells to limit Cell Temperature and in climates that need this limit.
SOC is also limited to the area of 75% +/- by deign intent, not 100% leaving no tolerance for overcharge and cell heating.
If one looks at the LIF-PRO pointed to in this thread, it has a lower Amp Hour rating than the stock AGM H6.
The BMS likely will see the different characteristics and treat it differently.
The specs given do not specifically address a Ford BMS control system, so expect anything over time as a result.
Its a complex system patented in 2009. The Patent description is available on the Internet for those who feel they can understand the operation and now in its second iteration beginning in 2018.

You see, not much is actually known and is treated very shallow and wrong, in many cases.
Good luck.

.

 

[{tpc}]

I don't think I'd want a lithium in my truck. Wrong type of accident or incident with a lith ion battery and you could lose the truck, garage, whatever. Even the small ones I use in my rc cars make me nervous.

 

[Snakebitten]

LFP isn't scary
And a few of us have gotten great results with the Ford BMS working just fine with the auxiliary LFP battery chemistry and it's own onboard BMS.

Having said that, I totally respect anyone for being hesitant to follow suit.

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