Installed Transfer Switch in House

[EricR]

Basic electrical theory. If you open the ground at the plug, truck, or panel, you have opened the grounding circuit and it will no longer work For short circuit protection! There is not a connection between the ground rod and the pickup truck if you remove the ground at the truck, plug or panel.

The ground wire is used to stabilize the neutral. I’ve seen some funky voltages when the neutral is not properly bonded to the ground! the ground is also designed in a short circuit occurrence to allow a large amount of current to flow instantaneously causing the thermal element in the breaker to heat up and trip.

Let me start with a big THANK YOU for sharing your knowledge and expertise on this forum! ?

Please help me and likely several others with no expertise in this domain understand the following:

When I am using the PPoB to power my travel trailer there is no connection between a ground rod and the pickup truck. When a contractor is powering tools and equipment at a job site with PPoB there is no connection between a ground rod and the pickup truck. I assume (and very much hope) Ford has created PPoB with protections built-in in case of a short circuit or other fault(s).

Why is connecting PPoB to your home any different?

Why, in the instance such as you mention above (say one opens the ground at the extension cord plug + interlock at breaker box):

• doesn't the truck provide it's built-in protections for the run from truck to house?
• the ground-bond-rod at the breaker box provide the protections for all runs within the house?

Standards such as NEC are of great value. But also, as you know, they are not static and are periodically updated to account for new techniques and technology not previously know or envisioned.

Could it be the case the NEC code doesn't account for connecting a external generator with the protections of PPoB?

Thanks for you patience with this electrical newbie!

-Eric

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[EricR]

Here is a probably very import follow-on thought to my post above.

The NEC code is what it is - and it should always be followed when dealing with the electrical system in our homes. After all, this is where we and our families live and sleep. Someone else also mentioned that insurance companies require electrical systems meet current code when installed.

I don't really like having to spend the money for a transfer switch. I also don't like having to hardwire my choice of what circuits are powered or not. But I will, for sure, if that is what is required for my PPoB to house connection meet the NEC.


I am still very curious about the question I posed in my previous post! ?

 

[Hullguy]

Let me start with a big THANK YOU for sharing your knowledge and expertise on this forum! ?
You are welcome!
Please help me and likely several others with no expertise in this domain understand the following:

When I am using the PPoB to power my travel trailer there is no connection between a ground rod and the pickup truck. When a contractor is powering tools and equipment at a job site with PPoB there is no connection between a ground rod and the pickup truck. I assume (and very much hope) Ford has created PPoB with protections built-in in case of a short circuit or other fault(s).
There is a connection between the trailer ground and the Powerboost ground allowing any fault current to travel on the ground wire and trip the safeties in the truck.

Why is connecting PPoB to your home any different?
Your houses neutral is bonded to the ground at the panel, per the NEC. As soon as you plug your truck in you have added a second neutral bond to the system. This is why the truck goes into ground fault

Why, in the instance such as you mention above (say one opens the ground at the extension cord plug + interlock at breaker box):

• doesn't the truck provide it's built-in protections for the run from truck to house?
• the ground-bond-rod at the breaker box provide the protections for all runs within the house?
• Think of a light switch. You shut the lights off, you have opened the circuit causing the electricity to stop flowing. When you open the ground at the there is absolutely no connection between the house ground and the truck ground. By doing this you have removed any and all protections provided by your ground circuit.

Standards such as NEC are of great value. But also, as you know, they are not static and are periodically updated to account for new techniques and technology not previously know or envisioned.
This is true about the NEC. Which is why the State of Massachusetts requires all electricians to complete a 15 hour Code Update class every licensing period.
The one provision about where and how the neutral are binding has been in place for over 70 years.

Could it be the case the NEC code doesn't account for connecting a external generator with the protections of PPoB?
It does! It’s not stated clearly but anyone with any knowledge of electrical circuitry should realize that removing a wire removed a circuit.

Thanks for you patience with this electrical newbie!
Anytime!
One last thought. In all othe discussions about removing the ground wire I haven’t seen one instance that this has been inspected and passed by the local wiring inspector!
-Eric
-Eric

 

[Antimatter_KingRanch]

I saw another post discussing making a 1 foot or so connector cord + connecting the ground to the neutral pin on the plug.

The idea being the truck GFCI is still maintained, and the ground is still wired at the plug.

Would disconnecting the ground upstream change anything or would it be equally dangerous?

(I know the Generac 6852 is the best approach; but I'm planning on selling my house in a couple years and don't like the idea of leaving that much work behind)

 

[Hullguy]

I saw another post discussing making a 1 foot or so connector cord + connecting the ground to the neutral pin on the plug.

The idea being the truck GFCI is still maintained, and the ground is still wired at the plug.

Would disconnecting the ground upstream change anything or would it be equally dangerous?

(I know the Generac 6852 is the best approach; but I'm planning on selling my house in a couple years and don't like the idea of leaving that much work behind)

That is not an approved wiring method by doing this! You are bypassing the ground fault safety’s built into the truck. The long and short of it is the only safe way to do this is with the correct equipment!
If you are selling the house then I’d gamble on not having an outage. And if you do power your necessary equipment Off of the receptacles in the back of the truck

 

[Antimatter_KingRanch]

That is not an approved wiring method by doing this! You are bypassing the ground fault safety’s built into the truck. The long and short of it is the only safe way to do this is with the correct equipment!
If you are selling the house then I’d gamble on not having an outage. And if you do power your necessary equipment Off of the receptacles in the back of the truck

Thanks. I'll wait and do it right at the next house.

 

[Hullguy]

My electrician disconnected the ground to get the truck generator to work. Is this safe - I’m an accountant and don’t comprehend this process entirely.
I just want to make sure that in the event we lose power and I use the Truck generator and transfer switch we are safe!!

It’s not safe! Have your electrician pull a permit and then have the electrical inspector come and look at the job. He will fail it

 

[amatofilms]

Another happy customer with a Generac 6852 and 7.2kW powerboost! All FOUR wires connected from truck to panel.

Some notes for things that can cause fun:
-As everyone is saying the circuits hots AND neutrals have to move to the genrac panel. If you simply gang the neutral bars you create the same issue as back-feeding with an interlock.
-If you have an older house where neutrals are shared on 3-way switches between floors or with ceiling lights you wont be able to use those circuits unless BOTH are on the generac panel. I'm not going to go into details on how to figure that out. Please hire an electrician if you don't know what that means.
-Same goes for neutral multi-paths where an A and B phase share a common neutral. Again both need to be moved over to the generac panel for this to work. Again if you don't know what that means hire an electrician.

I had the truck on for an hour and it didn't need the engine once. Truly crazy and amazing. I'm sure now that I've got this working I'll never loose power again!

Also added note:
You need to kill the houses main breaker first then plugin the 30amp and transfer. Other wise the truck will ground fault when you make the transfer. I only had one time out of 20 where I had to reset the truck after following that procedure.

 

[Gros Ventre]

A question regarding the transfer switch setup. The NEC does not require that. What you need to recognize is that Ford has setup the PowerBoost generator as a Bonded Neutral. That is required by OSHA for a contractor site generator. Ford could also have set it up as a Floating Neutral generator which complies with the NEC. As a Bonded Neutral generator its software is setup so that it sees the neutral-ground bond in your house system and interprets it as a ground. It then shuts down the generator because of the "ground." Bottom line: if Ford setup the PowerBoost as a floating neutral you would not need the neutral switching extra panel in your house. Note: Ford knows how to do this, its nonPowerBoost 2.0 kW generator is setup as a floating neutral generator.

 

[imnuts]

The 2kW inverter setup on the 3.5EB & 5.0 isn't necessarily the same as the ones on the Powerboost. To say that they're the same except for the bonded versus floating neutral is misleading. The 2kW inverter takes up most of space under the rear seat, neither Powerboost option takes up any additional interior space. I also wouldn't get my hopes up that one can be converted (bonded <-> floating) to the other without voiding your warranty, if it's possible at all.

 

[Gros Ventre]

My point on the Non-PowerBoost 2.0 kW is not that its the same as the PowerBoost version. I simply wanted to illustrate that Ford knows the difference and how to set it up. As to voiding the warranty, I've formally asked my dealer to provide a methodology for conversion and they have in turn asked Ford. We'll see how Ford responds...........

 

[Gros Ventre]

Note that you must have an interlock between the main breaker and the input so that they cannot both be closed at the same time. This is a requirement of the NEC in order to prevent back feeding the grid and maybe electrocuting a worker.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Electric or manual interlock.

 

[JBinFla]

My wife has an electrician she deals with for her commercial properties. She asked him for a quote to install a "transfer switch" and I mentioned about the bonded neutral or whatever. He came back with something that would cost $5,500. What the.....

Anyone around Tampa, Florida got one of these installed for (considerably) cheaper? If so can you forward the electricians info? I'm not comfortable messing with high voltage like this. Thanks.

- Joe

 

[amatofilms]

I paid $800 for labor. $400 for hardware.

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