EPA changes and rule rollbacks

[HammaMan]

EPA is currently trying to rollback just about every regulation passed since 2009 as well as ending the future regulations like requiring GPFs (DPFs but for gasoline vehicles). If they're successful in the current endeavors we could see the T4 diesel emissions standards removed as well as EGR nonsense. It also is looking to do away with the start/stop and the other AFM and similar schemes for shutting down cylinders, and at least halt increasing efficiency requirements to lock in 2026 CAFE standards. Also sounds like they're going to remove CARB's waiver as well.

They're especially targeting the rules trying to choke out power plants as well. Crazy pace things are moving at!
Also removing restriction from AL / Steel plants as well. Things that have been tying the hands of domestic manufacturing promoting the offshoring of these industries. It's barely getting any mentions but this is huge news!

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[Davexxxx]

Make Acid Rain Great Again? Lets put lead back in gas and paint?

I had family that lived near a steel mill. The whole town was orange. Really. A white German Shepard, was orange.

I remember the first time we traveled the Pennsylvania Turnpike, 60 some years or so ago. All the dead trees, as far as you could see.

I remember rivers, literally catching fire, because of all the crap that was dumped into them.

I remember as a kid, asking my Dad, why all that land, that is along side and in the medians of highways couldn't be hayed. Lead contamination from gasoline.

I remember when they permanently evacuated and made Times Beach, a Ghost Town, due to dumping of Dioxin.

I don't want to go back to that.

The Powerboost wouldn't even exist and that would be a damn shame.

Regs to reduce pollution and enhance energy efficiency drove those changes.

Solar panels, wouldn't be a buck a watt and lithium battery tech. sure as hell wouldn't be price competitive with lead. Not even taking into consideration the massive outperformance they provide.

Its fair to consider that some regs went too far, or too fast. Fine, fix that but that comes with honest study and negotiation, not meat cleavers.

 

[v8440]

Make Acid Rain Great Again? Lets put lead back in gas and paint?

I had family that lived near a steel mill. The whole town was orange. Really. A white German Shepard, was orange.

I remember the first time we traveled the Pennsylvania Turnpike, 60 some years or so ago. All the dead trees, as far as you could see.

I remember rivers, literally catching fire, because of all the crap that was dumped into them.

I remember as a kid, asking my Dad, why all that land, that is along side and in the medians of highways couldn't be hayed. Lead contamination from gasoline.

I remember when they permanently evacuated and made Times Beach, a Ghost Town, due to dumping of Dioxin.

I don't want to go back to that.

The Powerboost wouldn't even exist and that would be a damn shame.

Regs to reduce pollution and enhance energy efficiency drove those changes.

Solar panels, wouldn't be a buck a watt and lithium battery tech. sure as hell wouldn't be price competitive with lead. Not even taking into consideration the massive outperformance they provide.

Its fair to consider that some regs went too far, or too fast. Fine, fix that but that comes with honest study and negotiation, not meat cleavers.

A well thought out answer. Lead in gas REALLY needed to go, among other examples you gave. Now, supposedly new vehicle exhaust is cleaner than the air taken in in some cities. That's far enough, or a bit too far. If stuff got rolled back to about 2010 levels we'd still be FAR FAR FAR removed from billowing clouds of lead or flaming rivers.

 

[Davexxxx]

A well thought out answer. Lead in gas REALLY needed to go, among other examples you gave. Now, supposedly new vehicle exhaust is cleaner than the air taken in in some cities. That's far enough, or a bit too far. If stuff got rolled back to about 2010 levels we'd still be FAR FAR FAR removed from billowing clouds of lead or flaming rivers.

I don't know how far, or even if, things should be rolled back. I'm just relaying some things that are in my living memory.

And its just a partial list.

 

[Davexxxx]

And by the way, as an avid fisherman and hunter, I am a direct beneficiary of a cleaner environment and have lived to see it be improved.

 

[HammaMan]

Make Acid Rain Great Again? Lets put lead back in gas and paint?

I had family that lived near a steel mill. The whole town was orange. Really. A white German Shepard, was orange.

I remember the first time we traveled the Pennsylvania Turnpike, 60 some years or so ago. All the dead trees, as far as you could see.

I remember rivers, literally catching fire, because of all the crap that was dumped into them.

I remember as a kid, asking my Dad, why all that land, that is along side and in the medians of highways couldn't be hayed. Lead contamination from gasoline.

I remember when they permanently evacuated and made Times Beach, a Ghost Town, due to dumping of Dioxin.

I don't want to go back to that.

The Powerboost wouldn't even exist and that would be a damn shame.

Regs to reduce pollution and enhance energy efficiency drove those changes.

Solar panels, wouldn't be a buck a watt and lithium battery tech. sure as hell wouldn't be price competitive with lead. Not even taking into consideration the massive outperformance they provide.

Its fair to consider that some regs went too far, or too fast. Fine, fix that but that comes with honest study and negotiation, not meat cleavers.

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh. The sky has already fallen and naughtzeees have taken over 10000% so there's nothing left to do but enjoy it I guess while we wait for giant meteors eventual coming. Technological progress while stymied, has come despite regulations, not because of them. People often confuse general progression of technology for something the govt has somehow boosted when in fact it's just the opposite.

If it were ever truly about the environment, we'd have 100s of the latest reactor designs everywhere. Instead we have mostly gen 1 reactors with some gen 2 sprinkled about while china is licensing our tech to build the latest models (well technically to prevent their french designs from melting down) which is dumb because the US has no competition in advanced reactor design and china wants as much tech for their military as possible.

 

[Davexxxx]

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh. The sky has already fallen and naughtzeees have taken over 10000% so there's nothing left to do but enjoy it I guess while we wait for giant meteors eventual coming. Technological progress while stymied, has come despite regulations, not because of them. People often confuse general progression of technology for something the govt has somehow boosted when in fact it's just the opposite.

You can tell that to someone who didn't witness first hand, the congressional hearings about seat belts and tobacco but I know better.

Every new reg was going to destroy the economy. Except it never did.

Another thing I remember, was the Iranian oil embargo, causing lines and outages at gas stations. What was the initial rush? A wave of Japanese cars being bought, because US auto makers couldn't wouldn't compete and the US populous loved their V8s.

That wasn't exactly a great result for domestic manufacturing jobs.

 

[turbopilot]

Its fair to consider that some regs went too far, or too fast. Fine, fix that but that comes with honest study and negotiation, not meat cleavers.

Sounds right in principle, but that was not happening. Thus this reaction. EPA and CARB went too far and now we swing back to the middle.

 

[v8440]

Hammaman, I agree with much of what you write, but I gotta side with Dave on this one. Regulations have indeed driven much technical development in automobiles. The OEM's had to be dragged kicking and screaming to develop catalytic converters. They really did try to scupper the regs that made those necessary. In the end, the tailpipe emissions are FAR FAR lower because of converters. Even the early ones on carbureted cars without any air/fuel ratio feedback made a large difference. Ever increasingly strict mileage and emission requirements have driven much of the advances in fuel injection technology. They have also bloated prices, overcomplicated things, and created paradoxical situations like the fact that emission regulations that tighten past a point tend to decrease fuel economy. There certainly needs to be a limit to how strict things get, and my personal opinion is that we're past that point and it needs to be rolled back some. However, Dave's point about the good that has been done by forcing manufacturers to clean things up still stands.

 

[Davexxxx]

Sounds right in principle, but that was not happening. Thus this reaction. EPA and CARB went too far and now we swing back to the middle.

Seems I recall that numerous EPA and Carb regs. frequently having time extensions put on them, when industry truly can't keep the deadlines. So, it was happening..

 

[v8440]

There was some give and take, but in my opinion it still ended up going too far. When you're literally cleaning the air with passenger cars and trucks in some places, that's a bit too far given the complexity and expense of the stuff required to do this. We sure don't need to go back to 1970, but we need to back the hell off some and give the consumer some breathing room. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony of that last sentence.)

 

[HammaMan]

You can tell that to someone who didn't witness first hand, the congressional hearings about seat belts and tobacco but I know better.

Every new reg was going to destroy the economy. Except it never did.

Another thing I remember, was the Iranian oil embargo, causing lines and outages at gas stations. What was the initial rush? A wave of Japanese cars being bought, because US auto makers couldn't wouldn't compete and the US populous loved their V8s.

That wasn't exactly a great result for domestic manufacturing jobs.

Yeah, the agency had more than quadrupled in size since then and what has it yielded? A bunch of overpaid nannies trying to justify their existence. Plus this whole legislate via bureaucrat is for the cows. CONGRESS makes laws, not some nobody in DC. If it's worthy of a law, they can hang up from fundraising for just half a day and become learned. Especially now that The People have ai that can read these massive bills in seconds to spill the beans on the shenanigans they're cramming into them.

Look, if they want to create a 4th branch of govt to handle the nanny legislation, we're going to have to amend the constitution. Until then the executive has the power to gut the administrative state and it can't come soon enough. If they're not having to re-hire the 10% that carried the load, they haven't fired enough. With the looming shutdown, the trimming will become even more expedited. Amazing times -- I've waited nearly 10 years to see this transpire.

 

[v8440]

You can throw the BATFE in there while you're at it. They like to make "laws" with no congressional oversight and get people locked up for decades.

 

[HammaMan]

You can throw the BATFE in there while you're at it. They like to make "laws" with no congressional oversight and get people locked up for decades.

I can read, 2nd A is clear and the NFA is 100% illegal!

 

[Davexxxx]

There was some give and take, but in my opinion it still ended up going too far. When you're literally cleaning the air with passenger cars and trucks in some places, that's a bit too far given the complexity and expense of the stuff required to do this. We sure don't need to go back to 1970, but we need to back the hell off some and give the consumer some breathing room. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony of that last sentence.)

Lets see how far they roll things back.

Here is what Reuters reported.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainabil...ider-biden-clean-power-plant-rule-2025-03-12/

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