anyone regretting getting the powerboost?

[JExpedition07]

@JExpedition07 here's a stock PB. Puts down 383hp and 502ftlb to the wheels stock



His dyno session saw him changing his order from a 3.5 to a PB, LOL

So those are pretty similar losses, the 5.0 stock was 360 horsepower and 414 lb ft (on E-85) in Livernois pre tune run, and the PB was 383 hp and 507 lb ft on the same dyno. Both are down about 50 horsepower from their stock ratings. 507 at the wheel is crazy good, but same deal it’s 570 crank for PB. Adjust that 507 with the muliplier and you’ll get your 570. To the axle ratio and 1:1 point you made…unfortunately we don’t know the ratio on the 5.0 used. It’s either 3.73 or 3.31 since it’s 4WD. We know the PB is 3.73 of course.

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[HammaMan]

So those are pretty similar losses, the 5.0 stock was 360 horsepower and 414 lb ft (on E-85) in Livernois pre tune run, and the PB was 383 hp and 507 lb ft on the same dyno. Both are down about 50 horsepower from their stock ratings. 507 at the wheel is crazy good, but same deal it’s 570 crank for PB. Adjust that 507 with the muliplier and you’ll get your 570. To the axle ratio and 1:1 point you made…unfortunately we don’t know the ratio on the 5.0 used. It’s either 3.73 or 3.31 since it’s 4WD. We know the PB is 3.73 of course.

Yeah, the 3.5's high pressure pump can't run past e30 reliably and they don't put those numbers up -- it just can't flow any more fuel. Those guys don't really care about their YT channel as they have enough business to stay busy as it is. Given the variance of ethanol in e85, I'd prefer a tune that can work on the actual ethanol content instead of assumed variables.

 

[amschind]

Generally on a wheel dyno your power and torque is lower than the crank, they aren’t adjusted to show crank readings. For instance most GM 6.2L dyno 340-360 rwhp, that would be gross misadvertising if it was making 340 at the crank and they claimed 420 horsepower. If numbers were adjusted that would be BAD for Ford lol. That would mean the standard 3.5 EcoBoost is only 450-460 lb ft at the crank by most dyno readings. All Fords engines are rated on SAE certified engine dynos, the advertised ratings are supposed to be a minimum on premium fuel. The 5.0 is normally high 300s on regular fuel and the 3.5 is usually mid-upper 400s on torque. Dyno guys usually tell you to use a multiplier such as 1.15 or 1.17 to find the crank power figures.

I read a little on this in response to your post and realized how much I had forgotten. I was until now under the mistaken impression that Detroit had moved from net to gross HP, not the other way around. For that reason I assumed that the published power/torque numbers were from the engine on a stand and that the measured output on a dyno would be 10-20% lower. The link below was interesting, but I don't think that it really answered my question, namely "where do things stand today?"

I'm interested to learn more on this.

SAE NET VS GROSS

 

[amschind]

So I’m not crazy, for RWD you take your wheel horsepower rating and multiply it by 1.15, the dyno does not tell you the crank ratings and there are drivetrain losses of power and torque to the wheel. See below:

https://www.garrettmotion.com/news/...horsepower-and-why-it-matters-for-your-turbo/

This is interesting. Let me add another link for us to ponder:

Dyno Torque Vs HP

 

[Samson16]

I think the Brits have long used Brake Horsepower(BHP) which is equivalent to WHP(wheel horsepower), and both are lower than HP which is measured at the crank.

 

[Hullguy]

I realize this thread was directed at those who do not use the Pro Power On Board, but I do love the Pro Power, which is the main reason I purchased the my 2021 Lariat Powerboost. I use the 7.2Kw inverter generator (actually 2 3600w feeds) to power my travel trailer, AC coffee maker, tank heater, water fridge all with no worry about running out of power. Solar is cool and some trailers are getting better about being able to run AC etc, but the Powerboost is too reliable and easy. We do not use full service campgrounds. We mostly do dispersed camping on BLM land. This truck is an absolute magnificent use of technology for what we do.

I likely would not have traded in my 2015 Lariat 3.5l ecoboost for the Powerboost if not for the trailer/camping piece, but since I did, I enjoy most of the features it has to offer in addition to the power source. I can leave my dog in the truck on warm days, I like the big touch screen, the power and torque of course. It's simply an all round great truck.

I read about the various problems with them and I wonder if I get an incorrect perception because mine has been almost problem free. I've had the several recall items completed and I had the PCM Module reprogrammed to cure the rough shift issue. I now have 30k miles on it with about 7k of those towing a 4900lb loaded TT. Just changed the tires from the stock Wranglers to Michelin Defender LTXs. What a difference. Anyway, I hope everyone enjoys their Powerboost as much as I do mine.

Exactly why I bought my 21 Powerboost. No issues!

 

[JExpedition07]

Yeah, the 3.5's high pressure pump can't run past e30 reliably and they don't put those numbers up -- it just can't flow any more fuel. Those guys don't really care about their YT channel as they have enough business to stay busy as it is. Given the variance of ethanol in e85, I'd prefer a tune that can work on the actual ethanol content instead of assumed variables.

The weird thing about E-85 and the 5.0L is I notice the wheel horsepower is pretty consistent at 360 hp whether on E10 Premium or E-85. The big difference is rear wheel torque. On premium 93 it’s like 370 lb ft, and on E-85 it’s at or over 400 lb ft on every 21+ I’ve seen. That’s quite a difference on twist force, but very negligible horsepower gains to the wheel on the stock programming. Now that the 5.0 is both direct injected and port im sure the fuel delivery system has to be pretty robust to deliver E-85 from the factory. Cool stuff. Anyway I don’t want to derail a PB thread anymore. The real biggie is the gains the PB makes with a tune! Forced induction always makes for some impressive tuning results.

 

[PB Humbler]

Bro had a wet dream about beating a TRX once and forgot how to act

Not sure what dream your talking about but a tuned f150 beating a TRX is not new or suprising at all it is actually common sense based on the simple factory ratings of the TRX. The TRX is a badass truck for sure but shes heavy with big tires and that extra 1000lbs and tire difference puts a large damper on its quickness and speed.
Yes you could certainly get a PB tune from livernois and assume thats the only difference but trying to launch these trucks (especially the PB using a brake torque method driving the computer nuts) is not an easy task at all and takes a good while to figure out the way the truck does best. The powerboost helps with torque a lot but after tuning the issue with getting fast runs is not related to lack of extra TQ and honestly the direct opposite. I can also bet your truck weighsa good 100-200 lbs more than mine at the least so i wouldnt be so quick to think thats the only difference.

 

[charmai101]

I'm still on the fence. I love the driving experience with my 23 PB, the 24.6 MPG overall mileage, however, it stranded me once with the "stop safely no" no-start message. Having driving Toyota or Honda my whole life, I expect similar or better reliability from a Ford truck.

 

[NA&CH]

I've been on the fence so long with the 21 PB Limited. I came from a 15 Ecoboost lariat and had zero issues with it. The 21 has been in the dealer three times so far. One was for a faulty onboard generator and I was told I need to stop driving and get to the dealership... I absolutely hate the gas to electric switch over feels like an 89 Civic with broken engine mounts turning on and off. First gear thru third looks like I am learning how to drive a stick all over again. I guess the luxury of the limited makes up for the crappy driving...

Chris

 

[Snakebitten]

I've been on the fence so long with the 21 PB Limited. I came from a 15 Ecoboost lariat and had zero issues with it. The 21 has been in the dealer three times so far. One was for a faulty onboard generator and I was told I need to stop driving and get to the dealership... I absolutely hate the gas to electric switch over feels like an 89 Civic with broken engine mounts turning on and off. First gear thru third looks like I am learning how to drive a stick all over again. I guess the luxury of the limited makes up for the crappy driving...

Chris

Since it's a 21, it be helpful if Ford would make it easy for the dealership to install the 3 or 4 PCM updates that have been released since your truck was built.

If it is still clumsy after those updates, then I'd know that I have a mechanical issue.

1-3 shifting is butter now. And 90% of the EV/ICE transitions are transparent.

 

[NA&CH]

I was going to take it in and have them flash the transmission and have it relearn? I was reading a few threads on what people were doing/saying to the dealers. I called my local and they said well the 23's are out now...

Chris

 

[charmai101]

Have the 23 PB XLT for 6 months, no regret so far. Have two "Stop safely now" no starts. Hope I have anymore of those, otherwise it's great. Love the fuel efficiency at 25 MPG!

 

[Atlee]

Since it's a 21, it be helpful if Ford would make it easy for the dealership to install the 3 or 4 PCM updates that have been released since your truck was built.

If it is still clumsy after those updates, then I'd know that I have a mechanical issue.

1-3 shifting is butter now. And 90% of the EV/ICE transitions are transparent.

Shifting of my MY22 Job1 PB XLT 302A 4x4 seems a little clumsy. When in "normal" mode, it tries to start from a red light/stop sign stop in electric. Usually, the ICE will start. The transmission is somewhere between 1 and 3 and it usually in a hard shift.

I have noticed it doesn't seem as harsh if I'm driving in "ECO" mode.

It is smooth as silk if I am in "Tow/Haul" mode, since the electric motor is locked out.

Also, when I turn into the subdivision and I can accelerate slowly, it will stay in electric only and the truck shifts like silk.

 

[Samson16]

Shifting of my MY22 Job1 PB XLT 302A 4x4 seems a little clumsy. When in "normal" mode, it tries to start from a red light/stop sign stop in electric. Usually, the ICE will start. The transmission is somewhere between 1 and 3 and it usually in a hard shift.

I have noticed it doesn't seem as harsh if I'm driving in "ECO" mode.

It is smooth as silk if I am in "Tow/Haul" mode, since the electric motor is locked out.

Also, when I turn into the subdivision and I can accelerate slowly, it will stay in electric only and the truck shifts like silk.

My '22 302A PB XLT behaves similarly. If I'm too fast on the throttle it will hesitate and falter. I can confuse it into indecision regarding Hybrid/Electric only operation. It's not terrible, and passengers don't notice what I'm experiencing when it happens.

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