Anti-Sway bars questions

[Buyer2021]

Please bear with me as I brainstorm a project goal similar to @FirstFord. That is, combining the Steeda bar with installation of air bags (Air Lift 88355 in my case).

Here's a view from the Air Lift Instructions of the 88355 bag system that fits my F150 with underbed hitch:

Here's a page from the Air Lift Instructions showing my mad brainstorm, using the Air Lift bracket to mount the Steeda Bar Bushing:

The side-to-side spacing seems to be a fortuitous 'fit'; the center-to-center spacing of the bottom bracket bolts ("M" in the diagram) may require 'adjustment' (tighter to the axle housing). The Air Lift bracket is 'closer to the axle' which offers the benefit of the bar being tucked closer to the axle.

I've no question about the strength of the assembly when the bar is loaded to press UP against the axle.

BUT, I'm not sure about the strength of the assembly when the bar is loaded to pull DOWN away from the axle (?).

Hmmm, just brainstorming, don't be shy to throw-in your own $0.02 comments ....

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[FirstFord]

Please bear with me as I brainstorm a project goal similar to @FirstFord. That is, combining the Steeda bar with installation of air bags (Air Lift 88355 in my case).

Here's a view from the Air Lift Instructions of the 88355 bag system that fits my F150 with underbed hitch:

Here's a page from the Air Lift Instructions showing my mad brainstorm, using the Air Lift bracket to mount the Steeda Bar Bushing:

The side-to-side spacing seems to be a fortuitous 'fit'; the center-to-center spacing of the bottom bracket bolts ("M" in the diagram) may require 'adjustment' (tighter to the axle housing). The Air Lift bracket is 'closer to the axle' which offers the benefit of the bar being tucked closer to the axle.

I've no question about the strength of the assembly when the bar is loaded to press UP against the axle.

BUT, I'm not sure about the strength of the assembly when the bar is loaded to pull DOWN away from the axle (?).

Hmmm, just brainstorming, don't be shy to throw-in your own $0.02 comments ....

On first blush, I'd say you just killed about 10 birds with one stone! I'd go out and buy a lottery ticket!

The sway bar saddle (bushing bracket) matching up (close enough) to your airbag mount is beautiful!!! Clean install, multi-funtional components, I love it.

Again, at first blush, I can understand your thoughts that the airbag components and sway bar components could be in competition with each other and pulling in opposite directions, but I'm not so sure that would be the case. I'm NO ENGINEER, so I shouldn't even comment (funny how that fails to stop me...), but it seams to me that you have an unloaded desired ride height of X. If uou have a load, you lose X, so you air up the bags to regain X. Same with the sway bar. Installed at a static position, your ride height isn't affected (or at least shouldn't be). The sway bar is just trying to maintain the same body position but that is now in a dynamic circumstance. I know that I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know... I'm just kind of thinking out loud...

I can't tell exactly what the thickness is of the material used by AirLift for their mounting components, but it looks like it is at least 3/16" (and maybe even 1/4"?).

AirLift bolt part "M": I assume it is a carriage bolt (it is on my Firestone airbags)? Are they grade 5? The carriage bolts that came with mine were grade 2, which I was not happy about since the minimum grade in automotive fasteners is grade 5. I went out and replaced them with gr 5, but that's just me.

I think there is a very real possibility that you hit the jackpot with this idea. You will achieve what I wanted - the bar hugging closer to the axle housing - and with no fab work (except, maybe the end links). Frankly, I'm jealous... ?

 

[Snakebitten]

I'd do it!
I don't think the impact of how you mounted the swaybar bushings would be much different than having both airbags and swaybar would be anyways.
I don't know if I just said that right, but you know what I mean.

 

[HammaMan]

Great idea, I'd definitely source higher grade bolts, particularly due to articulation / forces off road, even if you're not a 'serious' off-roader. This may require you to move from carriage to traditional or flange bolts. Which kit number do you have? Seems the bolt grade isn't listed, It's probably 2 or 3 (diving in)

 

[Buyer2021]

Thanks for the feedback on my rainy-day brainstorming.

Purchase of the Air Lift 88355 is pending final determination of necessity. That's a function of more testing with my trailer in fully-loaded conditions to see how the 'level' works out (the sole purpose of air bags for me is 'tweaking' my 5th-wheel trailer level, to a finer-degree than the increments on my in-bed Andersen hitch allows).

 

[lilburnedbear]

I will note for others performing this install….
The picture in the instructions show the u-bolt location in a different location than the marketing image;

Also, the images don’t depict the muffler heat shield. Maybe this was added for 2023? It is a hard interference tho.

Sorry too to hear your troubles. My 2021 has the heat shield so it predates 2023 and the shield interferance has been of discussion. I think i had to slightly bend mine too for clearance but haven't had any noises in cornering - though it is super close.

I did put the bracket on as directed but as shown in the Steeda directions and it is not equidistant from the hubs (which admittedly is odd). For you I'm wondering if your exhaust is maybe a bit looser and/or if there's some flex in the more exposed threaded rod happening in the corners where the right assembly is contacting the heat shield and if you bent more (or some have cut a section out) perhaps that makes the noise go away?

My '84 GTI had an annoying rattle always at 2700 rpm, turned out to be the cat shield. Loosened 2 bolts all the way and the rattle was gone.

 

[BUDXR7]

Oh, man! Really hate to hear of your difficulties. On the other hand, a very valuable report - thank you. I am following with great interest, as I have been seriously contemplating doing a very similar install (but perhaps with a few modifications) later this winter. Your experience is unfortunate, yet is valuable to others. The power of the forum at work.

The creaking around turns is a bit of a surprise, especially since you reported that everything was properly lubricated at installation and everything properly torqued. The only thing that enters my mind is reflecting back on your comment regarding the difficulty in keeping the end link bracket parallel while tightening to proper torque. I can't help but wonder if one of them (or both?) didn't slip slightly. I'm grasping at straws...



Again, very valuable information, and great pic!

I am particularly interested in your comments and picture regarding the placement of the U-bolts, as I anticipate this to be a very real point on contention with my install. I may have to rethink this...

As a followup to my experience. I pulled everything apart, got the brackets as parallel as possible to the naked eye (although I really don’t think this is that important), and retorqued it. Same results.
So I decided to see if there was an install video on YouTube, sure enough, steeda provides one. I mainly wanted to make sure there wasn’t something weird about the flag nuts - they you do indeed install them with the teeth against the frame. They don’t specify but I watch the installer do so. Next, and before anybody flames me for what is “obvious”, I am an engineer, I have written installation instructions, there are reasons why you do and do not do things. There are times to NOT apply lubricant to a part (material compatibility or lubricant formulated into a resin for example). The written instructions DO NOT state to lubricate the end link bushings, so I did not. I only applied it to the sway bar bushings. Anyhow, in the YouTube video, the y clearly state to lubricate the end link bushings. So….. off they come , lubrication applied, retorqued, and binding sound is gone. I don’t care if it’s obvious to some, shame on steeda for not including it in the instructions.

While I had it apart I separated the tie bars from the end links to measure and determine what the max length I can get out of them is. Remember, these are the 2wd links. Accounting for 1/2” thread engagement, you can set the jam nuts at 3.5” spacing. This does NOT get your bar parallel. So in the end, the 2wd is too short and the 4wd is too long. Still less than impressed. Oh well.

 

[Snakebitten]

No worries.
I'm no engineer, and I'm not sure what directions I read. I did lube the endlinks but I think just because they looked squeaky?

Glad you got yours quiet.

 

[FirstFord]

As a followup to my experience.

I am glad to hear that you got it all figured out! I find it very satisfying when I find the source of a problem and implement a successful solution. Of course, its better not to have the problem to begin with! ?

Your evaluation regarding the lengths of the end links is interesting. A number of posts back, I indicated that I was considering getting the 2WD sway bar for my 4WD truck because I have the rear axle blocks removed. Based on your report, I may still have to perform some modifications to the end links.

You also initially reported a disappointment regarding any noticeable improvement in handling. Now that you've had the sway bar installed for a little while - and all of the components are properly lubricated, do you still feel that way?

 

[BUDXR7]

I am glad to hear that you got it all figured out! I find it very satisfying when I find the source of a problem and implement a successful solution. Of course, its better not to have the problem to begin with! ?

Your evaluation regarding the lengths of the end links is interesting. A number of posts back, I indicated that I was considering getting the 2WD sway bar for my 4WD truck because I have the rear axle blocks removed. Based on your report, I may still have to perform some modifications to the end links.

You also initially reported a disappointment regarding any noticeable improvement in handling. Now that you've had the sway bar installed for a little while - and all of the components are properly lubricated, do you still feel that way?

My truck doesn’t even have 1000 miles on it yet. I’ve put about 2 miles on it since lubing the bushings up. The only impression I can offer; I pushed it thru some slow speed turns under hard acceleration, where you would typically expect your inner rear wheel to break free - it did not. This indicates the body roll has been reduced. This improvement in traction was notable and I’m sure will also translate to driving attitude at higher speeds.

Regarding the 2wd or 4wd dilemma. This is only my opinion, if I had a 2wd, or a 4wd with the rear blocks removed, I think the 2wd model wouldbe adequate. 4wd with the oem blocks, go with the 4wd kit and shorten it up as much as possible by removing one of the jam nuts. How to do this is obvious once you have it in your hands. It comes right apart, just remember one end is reverse threaded and so is the corresponding link and nut. If you wanted it shorter you could remove both jam nuts, thread it all the way in and then tack it with a welder. Of course you can no longer adjust them once you do that.
I think what bothers people most about these, aside from the difficulty in getting it installed parallel to the ground, is how low it hangs. I don’t think there’s anyway around that. If you’re concerned you’ll ever drive over terrain that could hit your dif or axle, don’t instal this, it will get destroyed and possible cause collateral damage. Normal dirt roads, snow, etc… no concern.

 

[Buyer2021]

If you wanted it shorter you could remove both jam nuts, thread it all the way in and then tack it with a welder. Of course you can no longer adjust them once you do that.

Just FYI / FWIW ....

On my 4WD with spacer blocks removed and the Steeda 4WD links, I ran about 1k miles sans both jam nuts and did notice the link had 'extended' a few threads over that time. I reinstalled the links with standard LockTite Blue, still without jam nuts, and have not observed any 'un-threading' in 2k+ miles since.

Yep, I agree, all of this just for personal aesthetic preference (minimize the visibly 'dangling bar'), none of it seems to have any effect on the functional attributes of the bar.

 

[BUDXR7]

Just FYI / FWIW ....

On my 4WD with spacer blocks removed and the Steeda 4WD links, I ran about 1k miles sans both jam nuts and did notice the link had 'extended' a few threads over that time. I reinstalled the links with standard LockTite Blue, still without jam nuts, and have not observed any 'un-threading' in 2k+ miles since.

Yep, I agree, all of this just for personal aesthetic preference (minimize the visibly 'dangling bar'), none of it seems to have any effect on the functional attributes of the bar.

Yikes! Nothing preventing them from backing out all the way…

 

[Snakebitten]

Yikes! Nothing preventing them from backing out all the way…

Except he did use loctite, and I suspect he's someone who doesn't ignore the modifications he has done?
It wouldn't take much to glance at the endlink looking for ANY threads showing. It'd be easy to spot.

 

[BUDXR7]

Except he did us loctite, and I suspect he's someone who doesn't ignore the modifications he has done?
It wouldn't take much to glance at the endlink looking for ANY threads showing. It'd be easy to spot.

To each his own. It sure would make a mess if it dropped down and caught the road at 65mph.

 

[Buyer2021]

Except he did us loctite, and I suspect he's someone who doesn't ignore the modifications he has done?
It wouldn't take much to glance at the endlink looking for ANY threads showing. It'd be easy to spot.

This. Yeah, I still can't help more than 'glancing' at those dangling bars on a very regular basis.

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