Anti-Sway bars questions

[Calson]

I added the Hellwig Big Wig rear sway bar on my 2500 diesel 4WD pickup and no gain with a 4,000 lb load in the bed but a great deal of difference when the bed was empty with much reduced wheel hop when hitting bumps or dips in the road while making a turn. My truck already had heavy duty sway bars at the front and no need to fix what isn't broken. Took me less than an hour to install the Big Wig and no need to jack up the truck.

Biggest gain was replacing the factory shocks with Rancho XL adjustable shocks. I had double the dampening set on the rear wheels as for the front wheel when I had thousands of pounds in the bed. When the bed was empty I reduced the dampening to match that of the front wheels.

Sponsored

 

[lilburnedbear]

I believe they do, see this post.

Any reason to think that the 2wd version wouldnt work on a 4wd regardless on whether the rear axle blocks are removed? Might there not be enough thread length to get level?

 

[lilburnedbear]

Took a flyer and bought the Steeda 2wd version after talking to Customer Service. I dropped the rear by taking out the rear axle block. Got it in and the bar leveled parallel with the ground with using only about 1” of the threaded rod meaning at least 1” of thread engagement on each side of the end links customer service said minimum 0.5”. I could have come close to parallel even with the block not removed.

With that said I cannot understand the rationale for the length of the end links on the 4wd. As if everyone with 4wd gets a lift. PSA Steeda, lengthen the threaded rod 0.5” and sell it as a 2wd & 4wd unlifted. Then you can market the other as 4wd as “for lifted”.

 

[Snakebitten]

?

That said, on a fully collapsed endlink, it's not enough out of parallel to the ground to bother me.

And as far as function goes, although I'm no physicist, I believe the function is perfectly sound.

Still, I do agree with your suggestion for Steeda.

 

[OC Mike]

Update: loved the feel of the sway bar so much decided to do the front as well. I highly recommend both. Feels really tight and handles great. Might have sacrificed a little over bumpy roads but it’s worth it.

That settles it, I'm doing it.
New guy here, been reading up alot.
Background, came from F250 to the 150 in 2014. Tow an 8k lb boat.
Added RAS to the 14, settled it down some, alwasy felt like it needed a sway bar.
Never did it and never really comfortable towing.
Bought a new 22 and other than 1" Max Trac lowering shackle, truck is stock.
Sure the truck rides nice, so does a 70"s LTD, which is what it felt like wallowing around.
I put a Helwig rear sway with the 990 helpers. The rear end instantly feels more planted.
Recently did a 300 mi tow with boat with side gusts. Felt as planted as the old 250.
Totally chuffed. Of course, been wondering about the front sway as it feels like it's moving around now that the rear is planted.
Now I'm going all in, front sway, Bilsteins, more lowering and probably air bags to adjust the sag when towing or loaded.
Thanks for the info guys...............

 

[FirstFord]

Another terrific thread! I have read this thread in its entirety, as I too, am very interested in adding a rear sway bar, and have some similar concerns/issues of some of the posters here.

As @HammaMan has pointed out, the sway bars are mounted in such a way that they hang really low - unnecessarily so - especially the Steeda product. I also agree with his commentary on having to drill with the Belltech product instead of using factory holes.

@Buyer2021 : I too have a 4x4 with the rear axle blocks removed. I surmise that you must be an engineer, based on your great analysis and report - it's appreciated.

@Gutshot : I too, have airbags, except mine are Firestone, not AirLift (airlyft ? ).

@Snakebitten : Your disassembly and display of the endlinks was very illustrative, and gave me the information that I needed to consider modification.

As others have expressed, I also don't like how low the rear sway bar and endlinks hang. The Belltech product is the least offensive on this front, but then they go and screw things up by not utilizing Ford factory holes. I don't go rock climbing, but I do occasionally have to get into some rough country to perform a task, and there can be hidden tree stumps, or enough of a drop-off between large rocks that the low-hanging components of the sway bar ARE of a concern.

I am seriously entertaining using a Steeda bar for a 2WD application, but fabricating my own saddles - ones that would almost snug-up against the axle housing. I envision starting with some rectangular tubing, cutting the top off of a "long side", yielding a U shaped channel. Then remove the radius for the axle housing. I have no issues (at least not now - this could change, once I am "in the heat of battle") with modifying/shortening the endlinks.

Does anyone see any issues with this thinking?

Another concern is working around the airbag installation. @PatchManager supplied the dimension of "exactly 3 inches" as an answer to @Buyer2021 's photo question:

With apologies to @Buyer2021 for marking up his "borrowed" photo (from @Snakebitten ), I would like to know the dimension to the center of the U-bolt, as shown with the orange line:

And since I'm asking for the world, I'd also like to know the wide the saddle is; outside wall to outside wall.

I have to work around the airbag lower mounting plate, outlined in red:

I'm thinking that the sway bar saddle U-bolts can be placed under the airbag lower plate:

There are a lot of people on this forum who are a hell of a lot smarter than I am, so I'd really like to hear your thoughts, comments...

 

[Snakebitten]

You have no reason to apologize to me for any use you make of content I have posted. ?

It sounds like you are doing your own due diligence and attempting to modify things to get a much less "generic" fit than the mass produced options offer.
I assure you that there's a lot of room to achieve what you describe. Or put another way, I think the only thing that you have to live with is perhaps the sway bar itself. Everything else can be taylored to your needs if you have the wherewithal to do some fabrication/modification tasks.

I hope you share what you end up with!

 

[FirstFord]

Anyone able to supply the dimensions requested in post #126? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Buyer2021]

You have no reason to apologize to me for any use you make of content I have posted. ?

Ditto for sure!

Anyone able to supply the dimensions requested in post #126? Any help would be appreciated.

Let me know if I missed something you need, I'll try to help .....

FYI, the measurements above were made before the bracket was installed on my truck, noted on a very crude hand-drawn sketch I would be embarrassed to post

I'd appreciate knowing the exact PN of the Firestone air bag kit you've installed.

 

[Buyer2021]

I assure you that there's a lot of room to achieve what you describe. Or put another way, I think the only thing that you have to live with is perhaps the sway bar itself. Everything else can be taylored to your needs if you have the wherewithal to do some fabrication/modification tasks.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Having the Steeda installed and having studied this at some length while living with it, IMO ....

• The 1-7/8" from bottom of axle to bottom of Steeda bracket could be reduced to 7/8 - 5/8"; the bracket is hell-for-stout given the thickness of that folded ~1/4" plate steel. On my truck I cannot discern any potential for interference with anything if the bar were positioned that much closer to the axle at those brackets.
• With the brackets modified as noted above, and the bar set 'level' with the un-laden truck at rest, the end links can be much shorter than any of the Steeda links allow. IMO there's no need for an 'adjustable' link when fitted to a specific installation. A tubular steel link could be fabricated with end-eyes matching the Steeda piece to receive the bushings pressed-out of the Steeda links. Again, on my truck I cannot discern any interference with anything that would result from this bar position at any extreme of extension or compression of the suspension.
• The above would result in a much 'higher and tighter' installation that I would love to have. However, modifying (or fabricating from scratch) the axle brackets while retaining the smooth and perfectly fitted axle-housing profile would require precision (CNC laser or water-jet?) cutting of the Steeda brackets, a capability I do not have nor am I (yet) willing to pay for. Relatively speaking, fabricating fixed-length end links is a non-issue IMO.

 

[Snakebitten]

I agree wholeheartedly.

Having the Steeda installed and having studied this at some length while living with it, IMO ....

• The 1-7/8" from bottom of axle to bottom of Steeda backet could be reduced to 7/8 - 5/8"; the bracket is hell-for-stout given the thickness of that folded ~1/4" plate steel. On my truck I cannot discern any potential for interference with anything if the bar were positioned that much closer to the axle at those brackets.
• With the brackets modified as noted above, and the bar set 'level' with the un-laden truck at rest, the end links can be much shorter than any of the Steeda links allow. IMO there's no need for an 'adjustable' link when fitted to a specific installation. A tubular steel link could be fabricated with end-eyes matching the Steeda piece to receive the bushings pressed-out of the Steeda links. Again, on my truck I cannot discern any interference with anything that would result from this bar position at any extreme of extension or compression of the suspension.
• The above would result in a much 'higher and tighter' installation that I would love to have. However, modifying (or fabricating from scratch) the axle brackets while retaining the smooth and perfectly fitted axle-housing profile would require precision (laser? water-jet?) cutting of the Steeda brackets, a capability I do not have nor am I (yet) willing to pay for. Relatively speaking, fabricating fixed-length end links is a non-issue IMO.

I have an older brother who loves to "fabricate", and does so just for fun. He could and would make me anything that I "challenged" (the secret ?) him to.

Instead of letting the Steeda bother me much, IF I was using the truck in conditions that might conflict with the clearances, I would just use the truck and then address it if indeed it proved to be a problem.

Having said that, if I absolutely intended to use the truck where clearances are critical, I'd put him to work! ?

 

[Buyer2021]

Instead of letting the Steeda bother me much, IF I was using the truck in conditions that might conflict with the clearances, I would just use the truck and then address it if indeed it proved to be a problem.

As I'm sure you can understand, the Steeda doesn't bother me "much", but when I glance at my truck from a distance (as approaching it in a parking lot), I'm reminded that I'd appreciate a more 'bespoke' fitment of the obviously dangling bar. That's solely a matter of the architect's aesthetic sensibilities and engineer's functional sensibilities in me, twin burdens I bear often with a smile as I observe the world around me. Being a happy guy and an eternal optimist, I don't let such things bother me, but I do enjoy imagining 'better' (to my sensibilities ) solutions.


To be clear for anyone considering the Steeda purchase, the as-provided bar assembly performs wonderfully and has never presented any clearance issue for me whatsoever.

Funny coincidence, my brother is a talented fabricator in many media, having had a career as a traditional wooden boat-builder in Maine and Philadelphia, and now living nearby with a workshop that includes an industrial lathe and vertical milling machine among other tools he's acquired (along with the operator skills) over the years. But at this point in his life he's much like me in that he enjoys working on his own projects (currently '60s-vintage British sportscars), not so much projects for others. There was a time when the 'challenge' would elicit 'activity', but nowadays more often than not those 'challenges' elicit a wave toward the workshop with a smiling and sincere "Go for it!"

 

[FirstFord]

Let me know if I missed something you need, I'll try to help .....

Outstanding! Thank you! I find that information very valuable! Between the time of my original idea of fabricating my own axle housing mount/saddle and now, I have rethought the matter some. I now wonder if I wouldn't be better served just reworking Steeda's saddle by cutting the existing radius deeper towards the base. I had envisioned an even deeper cut than you suggested - possibly reducing the 1-7/8" dimension by 1" ~ 1-3/8", but I haven't thought that detail all the way through quite yet.

However, modifying (or fabricating from scratch) the axle brackets while retaining the smooth and perfectly fitted axle-housing profile would require precision (CNC laser or water-jet?) cutting of the Steeda brackets, a capability I do not have nor am I (yet) willing to pay for.

Nor do I have these tools, or access to them. The advantage to the aforementioned tools besides precision is speed - getting two ideals in the same process. I would argue (partially based on my own experiences) that the element of precision can be had without the cool tools - but at the high cost of time; it will take time and patience - two factors that I am equipped with.

With the brackets modified as noted above, and the bar set 'level' with the un-laden truck at rest, the end links can be much shorter than any of the Steeda links allow. IMO there's no need for an 'adjustable' link when fitted to a specific installation. A tubular steel link could be fabricated with end-eyes matching the Steeda piece to receive the bushings pressed-out of the Steeda links. Again, on my truck I cannot discern any interference with anything that would result from this bar position at any extreme of extension or compression of the suspension.

I completely agree with you! And you are confirming a thought that I had that I didn't write about - fabricating my own fixed length end links, as they may actually wind up being shorter than what can be had utilizing Steeda's parts, and more importantly (and as you alluded to) there really won't be any need to be adjustable.

I very much appreciate your observations and comments, @Buyer2021 and @Snakebitten !

I'd appreciate knowing the exact PN of the Firestone air bag kit you've installed.

Oh, boy.... You kind of accidentally swerved into a little bit of a touchy subject. You can get caught up on what I'm talking about here and decide for yourself:

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/air-bags-for-trucks-with-on-board-scales-caution.20600/

 

[Buyer2021]

Oh, boy.... You kind of accidentally swerved into a little bit of a touchy subject. You can get caught up on what I'm talking about here and decide for yourself:

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/air-bags-for-trucks-with-on-board-scales-caution.20600/

Ooops, sorry about that!

I do not have On Board Scales (nor CCD), but I do have a B&W Turnoverball underbed hitch for my 5th-wheel trailer which precludes use of 'bags' using over-the-frame mounts or bolts (we've all got our particular challenges ).

No matter to you but the Air Lift 88395 (or 89355 with SS hardware and hoses) seem to be the only option that works for my particular case. The installation instructions include an 'alternate' procedure that omits the over-the-frame "U" bolt when installed with an interfering underbed hitch, but it requires drilling one 5/16" hole in the frame rails for a self-tapping bolt in lieu of the over-the-frame U-bolt.

Bags aren't a necessity with my trailer, but I enjoyed 'em on my last truck for tweakeing to optimal trailer level for optimal trailer tire load / wear. My trailer has tandem torsion axles, so nose-low means more load on the front tires and vice-versa (tandem axle leaf-spring trailers with a center equalizer don't suffer that).

 

[FirstFord]

You have entered into an area that is beyond my knowledge or experience (come to think of it, like 99% of the other topics within this forum! ?).

I can say that the Firestone did not utilize an "over the frame U-bolt" arrangement. Instead, they used two heavy straps of steel to ride on top of the frame box, with bolts going up and engaging the strip. I don't know if that arrangement would help you or not. I can try to get some pictures for you if you want, but it may be a day or two.

Sponsored