A Difference in Gasoline Brands

[Azstroke]

Techron bottles run about $6 per 12 gallons of gas. Good Lord, just put decent gas in your expensive fancy truck and be done with it.

I'm only going by what HammaMan posted, that Chevron adds Techron in 1/10 the amount that the bottle recommends, so 12 ounces becomes 1.2 ounces per 12 gallons, or 3.6 ounces per a 36 gallon fill up. I can buy a 32 ounce bottle of Techron for $19, and it would cost me about $2.25 per tank. Chevron is currently 40 cents a gallon higher here, or $14+ more per tank, money better spent on beer and pizza.

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[HammaMan]

I'm only going by what HammaMan posted, that Chevron adds Techron in 1/10 the amount that the bottle recommends, so 12 ounces becomes 1.2 ounces per 12 gallons, or 3.6 ounces per a 36 gallon fill up. I can buy a 32 ounce bottle of Techron for $19, and it would cost me about $2.25 per tank. Chevron is currently 40 cents a gallon higher here, or $14+ more per tank, money better spent on beer and pizza.

I mean, it's really their words

 

[Samson16]

I'm only going by what HammaMan posted, that Chevron adds Techron in 1/10 the amount that the bottle recommends, so 12 ounces becomes 1.2 ounces per 12 gallons, or 3.6 ounces per a 36 gallon fill up. I can buy a 32 ounce bottle of Techron for $19, and it would cost me about $2.25 per tank. Chevron is currently 40 cents a gallon higher here, or $14+ more per tank, money better spent on beer and pizza.

If you drive right by both stations regularly enough that neither are out of the way and you don’t have to go out of the way for your additive and you can meter it out without spilling then for you it can save you some money. $.40 difference for the same octane and freshness is considerable. ?

 

[dochawk]

Looks to me a private company with excellent marketing people who were able to convince fuel chains

That's about as far from the actual case as you can get . . .

Compression dropped initially ('71 for GM; I don't know about the others) so that the vehicles could use the upcoming lead-free gasoline. This was followed by the Great Castration, leaving cars pretty much unable to get out of their own way.

At some point in the mid 80s, researching the ability to go to higher compression, Cadillac and the German and Japanese manufacturers realized that they would need some guarantees about the fuel. Their discussions created the Top Tier standards, largely about detergents.

It was the manufacturers, not the oil industry or any private company, that made the standard. Oil companies could comply or not--and some did, while others didn't.

I've had multiple Northstar Cadillacs; they issue kind of dire warnings about what happens if you don't give them Top Tier.

Northstar wasn't until 93, while ford's modular V8 came out two years earlier--the first engine that could adequately propel a large car in over fifteen years. Had it been designed with Top Tier in mind, it very well might have been significantly more powerful. As it was, my '89 Crown Victoria could handle the Baker Grade (sustained 6% in the desert on the way to Vegas from CA) at 75 with AC on in third gear. Taking the trip in a rental '91 CV when it got hit by a bus while parked (really! ), it took the grade on cruise control, apparently not leaving overdrive! (hmm, maybe it was 85, but I don't think so. It's been a while.)

Also, the best gas brands aren't necessarily the most expensive. In most of the Southwest, Arco is usually the lowest price (unless you have a truly junk brand in town!), but it is also Top Tier.

 

[v8440]

Ford and mopar did their big compression drop in '72, though ford in particular kept dropping compression on some engines further and further (400, anyone?).

 

[Tall Tail]

Any opinions on G&M, Circle K, or 7-11?
They are not listed as top tier but are generally Franchise brands.

 

[HammaMan]

That's about as far from the actual case as you can get . . .

Compression dropped initially ('71 for GM; I don't know about the others) so that the vehicles could use the upcoming lead-free gasoline. This was followed by the Great Castration, leaving cars pretty much unable to get out of their own way.

At some point in the mid 80s, researching the ability to go to higher compression, Cadillac and the German and Japanese manufacturers realized that they would need some guarantees about the fuel. Their discussions created the Top Tier standards, largely about detergents.

It was the manufacturers, not the oil industry or any private company, that made the standard. Oil companies could comply or not--and some did, while others didn't.

I've had multiple Northstar Cadillacs; they issue kind of dire warnings about what happens if you don't give them Top Tier.

Northstar wasn't until 93, while ford's modular V8 came out two years earlier--the first engine that could adequately propel a large car in over fifteen years. Had it been designed with Top Tier in mind, it very well might have been significantly more powerful. As it was, my '89 Crown Victoria could handle the Baker Grade (sustained 6% in the desert on the way to Vegas from CA) at 75 with AC on in third gear. Taking the trip in a rental '91 CV when it got hit by a bus while parked (really! ), it took the grade on cruise control, apparently not leaving overdrive! (hmm, maybe it was 85, but I don't think so. It's been a while.)

Also, the best gas brands aren't necessarily the most expensive. In most of the Southwest, Arco is usually the lowest price (unless you have a truly junk brand in town!), but it is also Top Tier.

Funny thing is high compression used to be ~10:1. Today the 5.0 is 12:1 and can run 87 octane without issue. Today the entire refining / blending process is watched closely with advanced computer metering/monitoring systems delivering nearly perfect results every single time. Amazing what technology has done to pretty much everything. So much hiding in plain sight that folks don't even realize it.

 

[dochawk]

Ford and mopar did their big compression drop in '72,

Did you get that from checking compression, or checking horsepower?

The reason I ask is because I had thought the same thing about GM. But I was wrong.

Just for what I know off the cuff, the Eldorado reported at 400hp for 1970, 365 for 1971, and 235 for 1972, apparently a big drop. But wait . . .

1970 to 1971 was a drop in compression for unleaded gas. But 1971 to 1972 wasn't actually a drop. They were both 365 gross, and 235 net, horsepower. Identical.

the rest of GM was similar.

1973 was the same as 1972, and I think 1974 was a modest drop. Oh, but then . . .

The 1968 cadillac introduced the 472 engine. It had been due a year earlier, but wasn't ready, so the new FWD 1967 Eldorado used the older 429 for that single year.

The 472 was used across the entire line, which was usual for cadillac, save that in 1970, it got a longer stroke only for the Eldorado, as a 500. The sizes remained through 1974. In 1975, however, the whole line got the 500, as it couldn't produce enough power at 472 for the governmental castration. The same for 1976, and then deboned as a 429 for the downsized Cadillacs of 1977 (except for Eldorado, which kept it's size until 1979, but tried to make do with the little engine).

Anyway, the heavy cut was generally in 1975, the year in which everyone (except Honda) had to use unleaded to meet emissions. The 71/72 difference is generally illusory.

(for most vehicles, the net HP number is about 2/3 of the gross)

They are not listed as top tier but are generally Franchise brands.

if they were paying to certify as top tier, they would certainly label as such!

there's another brand that sounds like circle k to me that is top tier, but I forget what. Probably has a similar logo, too.

7-11 definitely is not. (and neither is their "food" ? )

 

[v8440]

I got that from checking compression ratios. I'm aware of the minimal ACTUAL power drop from '71 to '72 at gm, due more to swapping completely to net power ratings in 72. My mother's '71 350 2 bbl skylark was rated at 230 gross hp and 155 net hp, which falls right in line with what you said. By the way, the cadillac engine starting in '77 was the 425, not the 429. I think you probably still had 429 on your mind from when you mentioned it earlier in the post.

 

[Tall Tail]

Did you get that from checking compression, or checking horsepower?

The reason I ask is because I had thought the same thing about GM. But I was wrong.

Just for what I know off the cuff, the Eldorado reported at 400hp for 1970, 365 for 1971, and 235 for 1972, apparently a big drop. But wait . . .

1970 to 1971 was a drop in compression for unleaded gas. But 1971 to 1972 wasn't actually a drop. They were both 365 gross, and 235 net, horsepower. Identical.

the rest of GM was similar.

1973 was the same as 1972, and I think 1974 was a modest drop. Oh, but then . . .

The 1968 cadillac introduced the 472 engine. It had been due a year earlier, but wasn't ready, so the new FWD 1967 Eldorado used the older 429 for that single year.

The 472 was used across the entire line, which was usual for cadillac, save that in 1970, it got a longer stroke only for the Eldorado, as a 500. The sizes remained through 1974. In 1975, however, the whole line got the 500, as it couldn't produce enough power at 472 for the governmental castration. The same for 1976, and then deboned as a 429 for the downsized Cadillacs of 1977 (except for Eldorado, which kept it's size until 1979, but tried to make do with the little engine).

Anyway, the heavy cut was generally in 1975, the year in which everyone (except Honda) had to use unleaded to meet emissions. The 71/72 difference is generally illusory.

(for most vehicles, the net HP number is about 2/3 of the gross)




if they were paying to certify as top tier, they would certainly label as such!

there's another brand that sounds like circle k to me that is top tier, but I forget what. Probably has a similar logo, too.

7-11 definitely is not. (and neither is their "food" ? )

LOL, One could say similar things about the food at AM/PM. I haven't eaten gas station food sinse soft serve was 25 cents.

So if I'm reading between the lines here correctly, you would avoid these large brand non top tier gas stations.

 

[crazywayne311]

well shit, hate to say this, but the first 5-10 tanks the F150 had was 87oct.
After that i started ponying up for 93oct (10%ethenol)
I'm not gonna lie, i get most fill ups from Sams Club. Obviously its usually cheaper and when ya have a 36 gallon tank, every penny counts haha

when i dont fill up at Sams i have an Exxon local to me and they just put up a Royal Farm.
Now that i got my FP Tune maybe I should stick with top tier Exxon

 

[JExpedition07]

And now here we are with higher compression than ever on V8’s….12:1 on a factory pickup truck and 87 oct capable thanks to direct injection

 

[HammaMan]

I haven't eaten gas station food sinse soft serve was 25 cents.

Sounds like you've never been to bucees then

 

[tidefan1967]

Im not going to lie, I care more about the octane than anything else. I’m pretty sure the advertised HP/TQ numbers aren’t on 87 octane. Also prefer Redline SI-1 to anything else. Highest PEA concentration there is.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I have a friend that hauls fuel and goes to the 'racks' where the fuels come in by pipeline and they load up all of the individual compartments for delivery to different stations. When it arrives in the pipes it's all exactly the same.

Summarizing, this is what he has told me (it's been a few years):

1) All diesel fuel is exactly the same. It comes out of the same pipe and gets no additional additives. Just always buy the cheapest for the fastest turn over.
2) The gasoline comes out with no additives, and they get special additives injected into specific loads to add octane and detergents. The particular mix varies by who the customer is.
a) the small private stations, convenience stores, etc. get no detergents or additives but will get the octane boost for their higher-octane blends. This is done to save cost, even though it's a minor cost.
b) Chevron has a proprietary additive blend that is unique to them that is the same as others, with a shot of Techron. For Chevron he said the machine injects the 'premium' stuff that everyone else uses, then when the order is going to Chevron, another special shot goes in. He only used Chevron for his personal gas cars, for this reason.
c) Everyone else gets the same stuff, Shell, Mobile, Costco, etc. with a nice additive blend. Good, but all exactly the same. If the pump says 'high detergent' or 'top-tier' or whatever, it has the shot of additives.

He was an owner operator fuel hauler for decades in both SoCal and now in TX.

I run Costco fuel nearly exclusively. It's cheap, next to work, turn over is very high, the tanks were only installed last year & the truck does seem to run really well on it.

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