3.5L EcoBoost 10R80 Deep Transmission Pan install, initial impressions

[FirstFord]

Nice write up, by the way!

There are still a detail or two that are not clear to me...

You don't use the 3/8 tube to fill the whole transmission, there is a "fill" port on the side of the new pan, assuming you will use a deep sump pan!

I was unaware of this, and found this concept to be an interesting approach. I went to the Holley / B&M website for a closer look:

https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/transmission_pans_and_accessories/ford/parts/70400

I viewed all 8 photos of the pan that were on display, and read the "Overview" as well as "Features". I didn't read anything about a fill port and didn't see anything in the photos that looked anything like a fill port. What am I missing?

YOU MUST GET THE TRANS TEMP UP TO min of 204 degrees to get a good level check

I have read in a number of threads that this can be quite a challenge. My transmission typically sits around 195 (+/-) degrees. Only when I'm pulling a decent weighted trailer does it it get close to the 204, and I know I'm not alone. On the one hand, it is something to be happy about, compared to the opposite scenario, but it makes checking the fluid level properly almost impossible. So, the process for me will be to load up a trailer, tow a trailer for quite awhile, come back home, unhitch the trailer, raise the truck and check the fluid level with the dipstick. It seems to me that Ford could come up with a better way to perform a basic maintenance task! ?

Great detail pic of the dipstick, and great explanation! I just had a thought, and I'm probably coming from "left field", but could the numerical markings on the dipstick be indicative of the number of quarts of fluid that need to be added? Just a thought...

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[missileboy]

I just like I can now check my level without having to go under the truck. I am heading to drag week in late Jan, so that will make daily checks on the trans much easier! With the drain plug on these aftermarket pans, that makes servicing the trans so much easier. I will just unscrew the dip stick where it mates to the trans hosing for re-fills when I service and fill though the normal fill/dip stick port opening.

IRT to getting the trans up to temp, mine sat at 196 for a few minutes, I got in the truck, put it in gear with foot on brake and revved the truck up to ~1800 rpms or so 3-4 times, then back in park and within 5 minutes or so, I got the temp to get up to 206. I was checking the level at 196 and it was low, I did not get the correct reading until temps got to ~204. Mercon ULV needs to be at ~204 min to get a good reading and I have confirmed that with 2 other 10R80 trans guys who build these to handle power.

I will do my trans services every 30K miles, so at least the worst part of the job (draining) is much easier now. And of course the addtional capacity is always a bonus.

 

[22Platinum]

So, the process for me will be to load up a trailer, tow a trailer for quite awhile, come back home, unhitch the trailer, raise the truck and check the fluid level with the dipstick

4WD low around the yard for a few minutes will push it right to 212 in no time

 

[HammaMan]

You can also just put it into drive and sit on the brake while pushing on the gas until it heats up. That's the easiest way to bring the trans up to temp. Torque converters byproduct is heat.

 

[JohnTrigger]

YOU MUST GET THE TRANS TEMP UP TO min of 204 degrees to get a good level check. you will see videos and read post where it is described as the perfect level is between the "5" and "6" circles on the stock check stick IF YOU COUNT THE CIRLES ON THE STICK FROM THE BOTTOM END UP! FORD numbered the circles in reverse! The triangles are half marks in between the circles.

But if you look closely (zoom in) on the pic, you'll see FORD numbered them the opposite, The outer most circle at the end of the stick is numbered as "6" so if you were to fill the level to between the "As Numbered" 5&6 circles on the stick, your level will be low. So technically, you would fill to between the number 1 and 2 circles (as the stick is numbered) on the stick, so that needs to be made clear! I have not looked at the official FORD maint manual for what it states, and I cannot find anything in the owner's manual except wording regarding trans fluid type and capacity. But purely based on the stock dip stick and how it is marked, correct level is between the 1 and 2 labeled circles. If you hear between 5 and 6, they are counting the circles from the end of the stick up to the handle of it.

Missileboy, your explanation of the dipstick you show is wrong. Someone filling to the 1-2 in a F150 10R80 transmission would be way overfilled. It needs to be between the 5 and 6 near the end of the dipstick, not counting backwards up the stick. The dipstick is not backwards. Here is what the 24 F150 maintenance manual says…

 

[Bubbasuwannee]

Yea the dipstick explanation is wrong. The dipstick is marked correctly with 5-6 being at the end. My transmission never gets above like 190-195 degrees unless I'm towing. Even when it does get that hot, it cools down relatively fast. I've verified my level at the hottest temp I can get while driving and coming back home to check which is like 187. It's below 6 on my dipstick when I check it. The biggest thing is to not overfill it... had the Ford dealer do that 2X on my last Raptor when I had it serviced.

As far as brake torquing to bring the heat up, yes you can do that, but I'd recommend doing it sparingly.

 

[22Platinum]

As far as brake torquing to bring the heat up, yes you can do that, but I'd recommend doing it sparingly.

I know why you say that, but actually the truck will defend itself; in this post I learned that if it notices you are using both pedals it'll reduce torque (down to nothing really.)

If both the accelerator pedal and brake pedal are pressed at the same time a new torque limit kicks in, this is the dual foot limit and it severely limits engine torque. At 2581RPM it only allows for 267.5 lb-ft, this is calculated by splitting the difference between the limits at 1475RPM and 3688RPM. The torque limit at 3688RPM is only 92 lb-ft as seen below:

 

[HammaMan]

As far as brake torquing to bring the heat up, yes you can do that, but I'd recommend doing it sparingly.

Uh, that's how a TC works while unlocked. You don't have to go balls to the wall trying to spin the tires.

 

[Bubbasuwannee]

I know why you say that, but actually the truck will defend itself; in this post I learned that if it notices you are using both pedals it'll reduce torque (down to nothing really.)

I figured there's some limitations, but I'd still not sit there and brake torque continuously without breaks. Maybe 10-20 seconds of brake torque and the same amount of time for rests...gradually increase the temp.

 

[Bubbasuwannee]

Uh, that's how a TC works while unlocked. You don't have to go balls to the wall trying to spin the tires.

Yes that's true. My comment wasn't in regards to safety/spinning the tires, but more not to cause premature wear/damage to the transmission.

 

[konoplya]

Bought a B&M deep transmission pan from American Trucks. Shipping was fast and free. Amazon, AutoZone etc wanted a whole lot more than RockAuto for the Mercon ULV. Bought 12 quarts and had 1/2 a quart left over, including changing the transfer case fluid. (NOTE: ULV does not go in the transfer case; Mercon LV does.. mistakes were made) A normal filter change is 6ish quarts to get onto the dipstick and 7.5qts total, but this deeper pan took 8 to get on the stick and 9.5qts to be between 5 and 6 on the dipstick.

Job was fairly easy really. Fordtechmakuloco has an excellent video (as always) on the procedure. On the 21 3.5 EB there is no need to remove anything other than the pan. Crack the rearmost bolts and let it drain; continue to loosen bolts towards the front. I used a $8 fluid pump from Harbor Freight and it worked perfectly. The B&M pan wasn't designed for the studs and heat shielding to be reinstalled and came with all new hardware. Don't forget to switch the magnet over before you reinstall! I broke the old pan getting the magnet off. Gasket is re-usable and didn't even attempt to leak; so nice not putting RTV all over everything and hoping for the best.

The aluminum pan doesn't cause the transmission to run notably cooler, maybe a few degrees, but I did notice that transmission temperature fluctuations were significantly reduced; instead of varying from 174-205 traveling at speed unloaded, the temps were steadily between 184-189.

The fluid was ready to be changed at 30,178 miles: was dark, though not black. Transfer case fluid was slightly lighter.

Thanks for the write up. A couple questions.. Did you add fluid while cold to level 6 like Makuloco does in the video? He doesn't seem to add any fluid afterwards as he is betting on the fact that once the fluid is up to temp it will expand to be between 6 & 5.
Was doing the transfer case fluid change easy?
Where did you find a guide to display the trans temps on the dash with Forscan? I have 22 F150 XL
Thank you

 

[PatchManager]

Nice write up, by the way!

There are still a detail or two that are not clear to me...



I was unaware of this, and found this concept to be an interesting approach. I went to the Holley / B&M website for a closer look:

https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/transmission_pans_and_accessories/ford/parts/70400

I viewed all 8 photos of the pan that were on display, and read the "Overview" as well as "Features". I didn't read anything about a fill port and didn't see anything in the photos that looked anything like a fill port. What am I missing?



I have read in a number of threads that this can be quite a challenge. My transmission typically sits around 195 (+/-) degrees. Only when I'm pulling a decent weighted trailer does it it get close to the 204, and I know I'm not alone. On the one hand, it is something to be happy about, compared to the opposite scenario, but it makes checking the fluid level properly almost impossible. So, the process for me will be to load up a trailer, tow a trailer for quite awhile, come back home, unhitch the trailer, raise the truck and check the fluid level with the dipstick. It seems to me that Ford could come up with a better way to perform a basic maintenance task! ?

Great detail pic of the dipstick, and great explanation! I just had a thought, and I'm probably coming from "left field", but could the numerical markings on the dipstick be indicative of the number of quarts of fluid that need to be added? Just a thought...

Have you looked at the difference the temperature makes on the dipstick? If 194 F versus 204 F was consistently a small change on the dipstick, you could take future measurements at 194 F knowing there will be the difference you previously measured. My thought is Ford specifies the measurement at full temperature for consistency, but you knowing your truck might allow you to be more efficient. I'm only speculating here, but I have noticed little difference when taking the measurements.

Just doing simple math (maybe over simplifying), a ballpark thermal expansion number for the oil is ~ 0.0007 / C. The truck holds about 13 qts of oil, so a 10 F (5 C) change would amount to a difference of less than 0.045 quarts or ~1.6 oz. Assuming the marks on the dipstick are ~1 qt from one digit to the next and that distance is 5/16", 0.045 quarts would amount to ~1/64" (1/3 of a mm) on the dipstick. Unless the transmission is transferring the fluid much differently between 194 F and 204 F, there would be virtually no perceptible difference on the dipstick. If this calculation is off by x2, the dipstick change would be less than 1/32". It is my experience that simply inserting the dipstick and pulling it out produces an error in reading the dipstick of at least 1/32" from one reading to the next.

Obviously, checking the level when cold without the transmission circulating the oil could produce a significant difference.

 

[Gutshot]

Following this thread as I want to keep my trans and truck for as long as possible. Searching for parts I came across this
site, the package has everything I need, minus the pump to add the fluid. FREE SHIPPING also. I just got mine delivered and it’s all OEM as advertised. https://rudysdiesel.com/products/10...b-9-xt-12-qulv?_pos=1&_psq=10R80&_ss=e&_v=1.0

 

[roadPilot]

Following this thread as I want to keep my trans and truck for as long as possible. Searching for parts I came across this
site, the package has everything I need, minus the pump to add the fluid. FREE SHIPPING also. I just got mine delivered and it’s all OEM as advertised. https://rudysdiesel.com/products/10...b-9-xt-12-qulv?_pos=1&_psq=10R80&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Just ordered this myself (fits the 5.0L as well), as well as the PPE brushed rear diff cover.

 

[22Platinum]

51535 miles and the fluid was shot, though she's seen severe service, 250°F a few times

Somehow the gasket leaked a quart in 21k miles

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