So it is possible! Diesel Hybrid

[redline]

well they didn’t market it much and from my understanding a bad reputation engine… I mean GM is selling like hot cakes across their 1/2 line up and SUVs… can’t beat 28mpg city on a full size truck

My business partner has the baby dura in his at4 and i love the engine... but he had a lot problems with it.... in the last month he has only drove it one week cause the rest of time it has been in the shop waiting for parts.

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[Rod507]

My business partner has the baby dura in his at4 and i love the engine... but he had a lot problems with it.... in the last month he has only drove it one week cause the rest of time it has been in the shop waiting for parts.

yeah I feel like nowadays new vehicles is really a toss up as to whether you get a reliable one or not.

 

[Rod507]

True. I guess it just depends on if you want to take your truck to 250k+ miles. Diesels do that on the reg. There isn't any torque advantage at the 1/2 ton level for towing in reality. Just kinda comes down to longevity.

completely agree! I think the cost of fill ups is somewhat the same/ slightly lower. DEF is an added cost but if not towing, should be every oil change or so. But diesel overall should have a longer lifespan.

I don’t keep vehicles long enough to find out, but to get the 26/27 combined on a 24 gal tank makes it worth it… now imagine with a hybrid, that’s should be even better

 

[HammaMan]

completely agree! I think the cost of fill ups is somewhat the same/ slightly lower. DEF is an added cost ...

Not sure about that one. Between diesel and DEF you're looking at 25-30% more cost to fuel for ~15% bump in efficiency? Between a ~$4k price premium and fuel / def premiums, it's impossible to ever make it a viable financial decision.

My PB is typically at 75-83mph, but I was driving around the area some of my property is at on back roads and was seeing 25mpg in winding 45-55mph areas.

 

[Rod507]

Not sure about that one. Between diesel and DEF you're looking at 25-30% more cost to fuel for ~15% bump in efficiency? Between a ~$4k price premium and fuel / def premiums, it's impossible to ever make it a viable financial decision.

My PB is typically at 75-83mph, but I was driving around the area some of my property is at on back roads and was seeing 25mpg in winding 45-55mph areas.

for baby duramax it’s only a $995 option. And for the range on a 24 gal tank, it’s about $24 more a fill up than gas (based on my area prices) but the distance per fill up for a diesel is far more.

again, for the purpose of this thread, having a hybrid option on a small displacement diesel could only be more efficient but will cost more

 

[Samson16]

Wait a minute! You guys almost had me. I started feeling like the Sierra AT4 Duramax was the truck to upstage my Unicorn, but I found this:

and I smiled ?

24 combined mpg matches my PB and I destroy that slow ass pos in every other way ?

 

[Jerome10]

I actually quite like small diesels but I feel like as of the last 5-10 years I've decided they're not worth it. It isn't just the fuel cost, then there is now the DEF, and you are seemingly almost guaranteed to have emission system problems.

These issues are even worse if you drive shorter trips or more in the city.

Maybe if you simply did long highway cruises for hundreds of miles at a time, where the MPG really pays off and the truck gets to full temp every time and can burn off the particulate filter no problem, etc... MAYYYBEE they could make sense.

But then I'm also forgetting the additional cost for the engine itself.

For this reason I don't think you'll ever see a full diesel hybrid. The constant on-off and changing engine temps would probably clog the thing up in no time.

Tow big is probably the only places I'd say consider a diesel.

For highway cruising even the current sedan hybrids and such are pretty insane even on the highway. Sure they're best in the city but even the new Prius is rated 57 city and 56 highway. Could any of those old VW diesels, pre Diesel-gate, get 56mpg highway? I'm pretty sure not. I think 50 was about the highest I ever recall seeing. So I'm not sure even for highway runs diesel probably doesn't make sense. Not to mention I don't think a single car is even available with a diesel in the USA anymore. They're all trucks now if you want diesel.

The sweet spot was really probably the early 2010 or maybe just before. Before they clogged up with the emissions systems (that also drained the mileage advantage) and definitely before you had to put DEF in the things.

And bringing this back to trucks, I 100% understand why Ford dropped the diesel and went with the Powerboost. I am not sure I see a single reason that you'd have wanted that Diesel with the Powerboost available, other than customers who just love diesel for diesel's sake (and there were probably 13 of those buyers a year)

 

[HammaMan]

Indeed, modern DPFs need / want good hot long hauls to clean out properly. Even the rather mild FHEV of the PB might be enough to just soot that sucker up. (PB isn't a mild hybrid, that's the lower voltage/power like e-torque). I felt bad for my PB for the 5-7m trips, so I bought the beater EV. No way a diesel could hack it without hydrogen injection.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I've been a lifelong proponent of diesels and have owned so many. My previous truck was a GMC Canyon diesel, my wife still drives a Grand Cherokee Eco-D, & I also own Peterbilts with Cummins diesels.

Unfortunately, as diesels have become less reliable and efficient, gassers have improved in these metrics. Unless you have a particular use case scenario (i.e. rancher, etc.), diesels just aren't economical.

There are some articles floating around out there about how the demand for diesel is growing faster than the demand of gasoline. Just because the way a barrel of oil is refined you are going to continue to see the spread between gasoline and diesel prices widen. The fact is that all ships, all military's, all delivery vehicles, fire trucks, aviation, etc all require diesel fuel to operate, and this is a market that really can't just adjust usage down in response to high prices, like the passenger car market can. These operations also consume huge amounts of the stuff.

So as a result, I won't be buying any more diesels for personal use.

Regarding Hybridizing a diesel, this doesn't make sense for a few reasons but the primary one is that diesels already lean out to approximately 45:1 air:fuel ratios at idle. This is why diesels are notorious for using very little fuel at idle for their engine size. Idle savings is really the primary place that a mild hybrid like a Ford Powerboost saves it's fuel and you can cut those savings to 1/3 in a diesel.

Do you want to know how to properly have great economy, power, and no range limitations?

Here ya go: 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger First Look: Range That'd Make Other EV Pickups Blush (motortrend.com)

 

[Henfield]

Plenty of proof that diesels can and do clog up their DPF filters. Mostly this is caused by persistent idling and low loads. The GM 3.0 is a nice engine, but replacing that belt located at the back of the engine requires removal of the transmission to get to the belt or rear end seal is going to cost $3k in time and materials. So I'm guessing those trucks will depreciate significantly at or around the time to replace it.

 

[JJSnell]

I've been a lifelong proponent of diesels and have owned so many. My previous truck was a GMC Canyon diesel, my wife still drives a Grand Cherokee Eco-D, & I also own Peterbilts with Cummins diesels.

Unfortunately, as diesels have become less reliable and efficient, gassers have improved in these metrics. Unless you have a particular use case scenario (i.e. rancher, etc.), diesels just aren't economical.

There are some articles floating around out there about how the demand for diesel is growing faster than the demand of gasoline. Just because the way a barrel of oil is refined you are going to continue to see the spread between gasoline and diesel prices widen. The fact is that all ships, all military's, all delivery vehicles, fire trucks, aviation, etc all require diesel fuel to operate, and this is a market that really can't just adjust usage down in response to high prices, like the passenger car market can. These operations also consume huge amounts of the stuff.

So as a result, I won't be buying any more diesels for personal use.

Regarding Hybridizing a diesel, this doesn't make sense for a few reasons but the primary one is that diesels already lean out to approximately 45:1 air:fuel ratios at idle. This is why diesels are notorious for using very little fuel at idle for their engine size. Idle savings is really the primary place that a mild hybrid like a Ford Powerboost saves it's fuel and you can cut those savings to 1/3 in a diesel.

Do you want to know how to properly have great economy, power, and no range limitations?

Here ya go: 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger First Look: Range That'd Make Other EV Pickups Blush (motortrend.com)

Thanks for breaking it down... Your inclusion of the "have to" autos that use diesel really does highlight the fact there is no need or forced call to lower diesel prices.

If I had a mic I would give it to you, just to watch you drop it...

 

[JJSnell]

Plenty of proof that diesels can and do clog up their DPF filters. Mostly this is caused by persistent idling and low loads. The GM 3.0 is a nice engine, but replacing that belt located at the back of the engine requires removal of the transmission to get to the belt or rear end seal is going to cost $3k in time and materials. So I'm guessing those trucks will depreciate significantly at or around the time to replace it.

Holy crap, belts at the back of the engine? What a nightmare.

In context, just replaced the timing chain on my daughters '15 Terrain. I think said and done I was at $800...

 

[Jerome10]

Do you want to know how to properly have great economy, power, and no range limitations?

Here ya go: 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger First Look: Range That'd Make Other EV Pickups Blush (motortrend.com)

I was reading up on that Ramcharger just a few days ago. Without digging into the details, to me, it seems like a compelling package. The generator gas engine is the difference-maker.

The Lightning is fine, but if you tow, its nearly worthless. I have no idea how the Ramcharger may or may not fix this but if you can continually tow hundreds of miles so long as there is fuel in the tank.... definitely better than Lightning. Now, perhaps if the battery is depleted, even with fuel in the tank, maybe it won't have enough power to keep towing full loads??

And it has the 7.2kW pro power as well. That was huge for me on choosing Ford this time.

I was highly impressed with RAM when I was shopping, it was really the 7.2kw Pro Power that was the difference maker to getting me in a Ford. Next truck this might be on the shopping list.

 

[Snakebitten]

Thanks for breaking it down... Your inclusion of the "have to" autos that use diesel really does highlight the fact there is no need or forced call to lower diesel prices.

If I had a mic I would give it to you, just to watch you drop it...

I agree. That @Suns_PSD post was mic-drop clear for me too.

 

[DT444T]

Will for sure end EV talks or maybe regain lost EV grounds

Why do we need to end EV talks and what ground did we ever lose to EV? We have better engines than we have ever had in history PLUS we have EVs. I don't understand.

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