Ramcharger: How (Can?) Ford Respond - A Discussion

[Snakebitten]

Yes. Leafspy.
Every Leaf owner should have it.

It tells you the truth, so you can ignore the instrument panel optimism/pessimism. ?

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[Snakebitten]

So what are the options for increasing KWH without increasing cell/module count?

(I mean if you haven't altered the fundamental voltage design)
The Leaf is a 400V design. The BMS couldn't accommodate an 800V upgrade.

 

[dafish]

The RC can recharge itself easily while providing 125/30 to the RV without high revs? Nice ?
Negligible fuel drain too? Double ?

Sure.. 120V x 30 is only 2.6KW. The thing can deliver 130KW/H, and that's ~175 hp. If we only expect 44 hp we're still over the power demand to change a 70KW battery in 2.25 hours, and now the ICE isn't working all that hard. That's less HP then an average half-ton going down the interstate.

Fuel drain? Well.. But it's certainly not going to be crazy. Something in the 3.5-4 gallons per hour range per hour (for roughly 2.25 hours). Most of that is recharging the HVB. Which honestly I would not do unless I had to have it.

Personally, I'd like to see some form of control over how much power the ICE outputs. I'd rather have it doing it stealthy and take more time, and or just not fully recharge the HVB.

 

[dafish]

So what are the options for increasing KWH without increasing cell/module count?

(I mean if you haven't altered the fundamental voltage design)
The Leaf is a 400V design. The BMS couldn't accommodate an 800V upgrade.

I honestly don't know how LION batteries have increase KWH capacity so significantly per cell, and I don't wanta make up some BS, so I gotta go with "I don't know".

I do know (I use LION 14500 batts for a variety of things) there has been considerable amperage capacity increase per cell. And of course it can't be different voltages at the cell, and obviously as this is a per cell now there is no pack change.

A wild-assed guess? Purity of materials, more efficient battery chemistry (while not changing the baseline voltage or function of the cell), different anodes, etc.. I can say with certainty it's been done at the single cell level though.

But again, we're at the edge of what i know and really into guessing.

 

[Samson16]

Sure.. 120V x 30 is only 2.6KW. The thing can deliver 130KW/H, and that's ~175 hp. If we only expect 44 hp we're still over the power demand to change a 70KW battery in 2.25 hours, and now the ICE isn't working all that hard. That's less HP then an average half-ton going down the interstate.

Fuel drain? Well.. But it's certainly not going to be crazy. Something in the 3.5-4 gallons per hour range per hour (for roughly 2.25 hours). Most of that is recharging the HVB. Which honestly I would not do unless I had to have it.

Personally, I'd like to see some form of control over how much power the ICE outputs. I'd rather have it doing it stealthy and take more time, and or just not fully recharge the HVB.

Now here’s what a real 130kW generator looks like.

 

[Samson16]

It’s an 8.9L turbocharged V8 running LP or NG.

 

[Samson16]

We tout the HP and the kW/hr, and yet when EVs are loaded heavily that capacity dissipates like morning mist. I hope it keeps up with the load demand so well it can run the RV all night without the ICE coming on at all. ?

 

[Snakebitten]

We tout the HP and the kW/hr, and yet when EVs are loaded heavily that capacity dissipates like morning mist. I hope it keeps up with the load demand so well it can run the RV all night without the ICE coming on at all. ?

Although we have no clue what the BMS is programmed to do, therefore wouldn't know what SOC would trigger the ICE/generator, we CAN do the math and imagine how long you could draw on a 98KWH battery.

Or if you just want to imagine it compared to the Powerboost......
The Powerboost triggers the ICE when the battery drops to about 42%SOC.
Turns back off when it charges to about 63%SOC.

So if you were plugged into your RV, and the current draw allowed the Powerboost to go 10 minutes between charging events, then the simple math would be something like:

Powerboost battery
1.5 KWH
42<>63 is ~20% of 1.5KWH

.2 * 1.5 = .3KWH = 10 minutes of RV power

For simple math, let's round up a tiny bit and call the RamCharger battery 100KWH
Every 10 minutes the RV consumes .3KWH. So you will get a full hour out of a little less than 2KWH

You sleep 8 hours. While you are asleep, whatever the draw on ProPower is that gets you 10 minutes of no ICE charging, on the RamCharger it would have consumed less than 16KWH?

Surely the ICE would not be required to charge that monster (relative to the teeny tiny Powerboost) battery during that 8 hours? In fact, I'd like to think that you could double the draw (5 minutes between Powerboost ICE/charge events) and still not hear the RamCharger ICE kick in.

If that's true, it would include sleeping with the RV 13.5K BTU AC blowing all night too!

By the way, don't trust my math skills to a tee. This is soft math with personal Boondocking ProPower experience regarding charge times.

 

[Samson16]

By the way, don't trust my math skills to a tee. This is soft math with personal Boondocking ProPower experience regarding charge times.

I actually prefer soft math in these discussions because it’s a bit pretentious to assume all variables are accounted for and looks like a poor attempt to show off math skills without sight of the goal.

 

[Samson16]

If that's true, it would include sleeping with the RV 13.5K BTU AC blowing all night too!

Now that really moves the football down the field doesn’t it?! How about my earlier scenario while pulling up a long grade at altitude the RC burns through a good bit of fuel but never overheats or runs out effortless torque? Can you see that happening or is it a “watch out for the battery drain” event?

 

[Snakebitten]

Now that really moves the football down the field doesn’t it?! How about my earlier scenario while pulling up a long grade at altitude the RC burns through a good bit of fuel but never overheats or runs out effortless torque? Can you see that happening or is it a “watch out for the battery drain” event?

I've been watching/reading/sharing 3.5 Ecoboost summer towing Heat-shedding conversation for many years. (Ecoboost forum)

To keep it brief, you, the driver, has both the burden and the ability to manage the situation. You might not be happy about having to let off (slow down) and manually overriding the factory shift strategy as you climb certain grades in certain conditions, but you will get to the top of the hill and not lose your spot at the campground.

 

[Samson16]

I've been watching/reading/sharing 3.5 Ecoboost summer towing Heat-shedding conversation for many years. (Ecoboost forum)

To keep it brief, you, the driver, has both the burden and the ability to manage the situation. You might not be happy about having to let off (slow down) and manually overriding the factory shift strategy as you climb certain grades in certain conditions, but you will get to the top of the hill and not lose your spot at the campground.

Aargh!! But so true ?
I was actually referring to the RC faced with the Kobayashi Maru? How would you negotiate the long summit run?

 

[Snakebitten]

I haven't a clue.
I still consider the RamCharger as vaporware.
Just like the Silverado EV.
Just like the $39.9K Lightning.
Just like the........

You know what's REAL?

What you can actually own that will tow your tinyhouse up the Rocky Mountain National Forest and then provide you the magic of light and kitchen and central air conditioning, all while you watch a glorious sunset with your family?

Yep. You know. Cuz you already got one. ??

 

[Samson16]

To keep it brief, you, the driver, has both the burden and the ability to manage the situation.

You were so eloquent I glossed over the fact that you removed the louvers from your grill! Smooth talking old dog!

 

[Snakebitten]

That's the intercooler louvers though. Not really sufficient help on a 6 or 7 grade in 95F ambients towing a parachute at 65mph.
First, you MUST have digital ECT values to see. Then lock out whatever gear ratios you need to reduce boost and spin that water pump up. The 3.5 does not mind the 3500-4500rpm range at all. It's not fragile.

If you see ECT approaching 235F and you know you got more climb to go, then get humble and slow down. That right side climbing lane is hard on the ego, but its the only choice you have sometimes. You'll see those ECTs drop almost instantly when you stop dumping that boost heat into the loop.

240's aren't that bad for a few seconds, but you are approaching Ford's protective mode intervention. On the Gen2 3.5, I think it set at 254F? I could be wrong. On our trucks I think it sets a little earlier, but is less drastic?

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