Powerboost reliability.

[Gros Ventre]

Belt Integrated Starter Generator not Belt Driven Starter Generator. I think at this point I just make up believable acronyms on the fly lol. Thanks for that.

Remember, these large auto companies are beaucracies... bureaucrats make a name for themselves by coming up with catchy things...

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[Gros Ventre]

As to the BISG charging the 12VDC batteries, a DC machine can be both a motor and a generator. Just depends on the excitation of the machine. In other words it can start the engine as a motor and then when the truck's control system senses the engine running it can increase the excitation to the DC machine and it generates... Some AC Machines can both motor and generate, but not all.

 

[Samson16]

As to the BISG charging the 12VDC batteries, a DC machine can be both a motor and a generator. Just depends on the excitation of the machine. In other words it can start the engine as a motor and then when the truck's control system senses the engine running it can increase the excitation to the DC machine and it generates... Some AC Machines can both motor and generate, but not all.

My question to you and the group is does the PB BISG ever generate electricity?

 

[Gros Ventre]

My question to you and the group is does the PB BISG ever generate electricity?

I believe yes. The design is well understood how to build a DC Machine that can either generate or motorate... The wiring to do it is not complex and given the computer control of everything in this truck, the control setup is not difficult.

 

[Snakebitten]

I honestly don't know.
But I have found ZERO evidence that it does.
And when would it?

 

[Big Dog Daddy]

As a 5.0 owner, this conversation has sparked my interest.
If I understand correctly the Powerboost has a traditional starter for the ice engine. and also has the BISG that is used to start the ICE while in motion. Is the BISG visible from under the hood and driven by the accessory belt drive on the front of the ice? Or is it tucked any in the transmission bell housing? Does the PB ice engine also have a traditional belt driven alternator like the ICE only trucks do?

 

[Snakebitten]

It's mounted similar to traditional components on an ICE motor that involves a belt that includes the crankshaft pully. Except in this case it has a dedicated belt with an independent tensioner assembly.

It can also start the truck with ICE off, but for whatever reason it isn't used for what Ford calls a "cold start"

Since so much of the Powerboost is "electrified", you don't see the typical Ecoboost/Coyote peripherals driven by a serpentine belt.

HVAC compressor, for example is electric. And of course no alternator as well.

 

[powerboatr]

It's mounted similar to traditional components on an ICE motor that involves a belt that includes the crankshaft pully. Except in this case it has a dedicated belt with an independent tensioner assembly.

It can also start the truck with ICE off, but for whatever reason it isn't used for what Ford calls a "cold start"

Since so much of the Powerboost is "electrified", you don't see the typical Ecoboost/Coyote peripherals driven by a serpentine belt.

HVAC compressor, for example is electric. And of course no alternator as well.

one would "think" the BISG thingy would do all the starting and reduce one more big heavy starter over at the bellhousing.. i bet the BISG is smooth as silk when it decides to start the ice. its constantly creating juice as well correct when ICE is in the RUN mode?

 

[Snakebitten]

one would "think" the BISG thingy would do all the starting and reduce one more big heavy starter over at the bellhousing.. i bet the BISG is smooth as silk when it decides to start the ice. its constantly creating juice as well correct when ICE is in the RUN mode?

"The BISG is used to restart the engine during rolling starts AND initial starts if conditions allow"

Of course the details for "conditions" isn't explained.
But elsewhere Ford does describe the condition for the traditional flywheel starting event as a "cold start"

I suspect that the definition of cold start is not limited to what we might assume.

Note Ford mentioned the BISG as Belt Integrated Starter, in this reference.

As for it creating juice when the engine is running...
Nobody has shown evidence that it does. Or why it would.
Ford uses the term BISG for similar device on other vehicles. And perhaps on other vehicles it IS both a BIS & BISG. So the terminology by itself could be misleading on the Powerboost.

 

[powerboatr]

"The BISG is used to restart the engine during rolling starts AND initial starts if conditions allow"

Of course the details for "conditions" isn't explained.
But elsewhere Ford does describe the condition for the traditional flywheel starting event as a "cold start"

I suspect that the definition of cold start is not limited to what we might assume.

Note Ford mentioned the BISG as Belt Integrated Starter, in this reference.

As for it creating juice when the engine is running...
Nobody has shown evidence that it does. Or why it would.
Ford uses the term BISG for similar device on other vehicles. And perhaps on other vehicles it IS both a BIS & BISG. So the terminology by itself could be misleading on the Powerboost.

i love the wording they use
bcm receives a request ? ? freaking HAL9000

 

[Snakebitten]

One thing we might deduce from Ford's own documentation is

"initial start" does not necessarily mean "cold start"

So the traditional 12V bendix starter is intended for cold starts.
The 12V Belt Starter is intended for rolling starts and not-cold initial starts. ?

 

[powerboatr]

One thing we might deduce from Ford's own documentation is

"initial start" does not necessarily mean "cold start"

So the traditional 12V bendix starter is intended for cold starts.
The 12V Belt Starter is intended for rolling starts and not-cold initial starts. ?

COLD IRON ...like on the ship
which begs to question is a cold start that much more demanding with the thinner oil?
maybe for those living wayyy up north, around shreveport toss back to justin

 

[HammaMan]

one would "think" the BISG thingy would do all the starting and reduce one more big heavy starter over at the bellhousing.. i bet the BISG is smooth as silk when it decides to start the ice. its constantly creating juice as well correct when ICE is in the RUN mode?

When the belt starter is used it slaps the engine to life and will rock the truck. I've only seen the flywheel starter used maybe 5 times, and that was when it was cold out and the 12v wasn't topped off like it stays now.

I think its generation capabilities are used with the throttle at positions other than zero, but need to put a CT on it to actually get current flow as there's nothing that can be monitored by the OBD2 port that we're aware of to monitor it.

 

[Snakebitten]

I need to take the time (hours) sitting in the truck doing a deep dive into the MANY (hundreds) of unused PIDs.

Perhaps there's some PID that would indicate if/when voltage is sent to the BIS(G)?
Or the 12V starter relay on the traditional starter?

As for whether the BISG would generate 12V rather than just consume it, again I would first want to know why it would even be necessary?

1. It's heavy gauge 12V cabling IS part of the actual battery cable that connects to both starters. So it's basically wired exactly like the traditional starter.

2. The role of an alternator already exists in alternate components, which supply the entire 12V system whether ICE is running or not.

There isn't 2 air conditioning compressors, one for ICE on and one for ICE off. Or vacuum pumps. Or.......

Having said all that, I'm not even close to making any kind of declaration. Just trying to make sense of the amazing Powerboost.

 

[Samson16]

HVB fault causes the BISG to take over DC bus charging duties until service can be accomplished.

I just looked it up. Trust me. Case closed.

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