Wall Street Journal Article - regarding UAW Strike.

[jcaspar]

If Ford is truly losing $30k per EV... whle Musk is making typically 30% on each EV.. i really doubt GM and Ford will make it. Automation needed to surmount Tesla's lead is just wishful thinking, i am afraid. The internal combustion engine is what protected GM and Ford from other competitors. Take that away and they will be eaten alive. That is their key expertise. It is being nullified via the regulatory fiat.

We are going to end up with a computer on w
heels. Think of Wang, UNIVAC, Sun Micosystems, Honeywell, Control Data... mainframe manufacturers who did not make the turn. We are seeing the same play out with EVs.

Losses are expected at first with the transition. Rivian was losing 147,000$ per vehicle last year.

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[PPK]

Losses are expected at first with the transition. Rivian was losing 147,000$ per vehicle last year.

Ford Motor Annual Long Term Debt (Millions of US $)
2022	$88,805

Tesla Annual Long Term Debt (Millions of US $)
2022	$1,597

This is another competitive problem... our favorite car manufacturer is already in the hole. Telsa is making two million of those EVs already. i hope ford overcomes it. Debt to the bond holders is what will drive Fords future.

 

[Cubfan1]

If Ford is truly losing $30k per EV... whle Musk is making typically 30% on each EV.. i really doubt GM and Ford will make it. Automation needed to surmount Tesla's lead is just wishful thinking, i am afraid. The internal combustion engine is what protected GM and Ford from other competitors. Take that away and they will be eaten alive. That is their key expertise. It is being nullified via the regulatory fiat.

We are going to end up with a computer on wheels. Think of Wang, UNIVAC, Sun Micosystems, Honeywell, Control Data... mainframe manufacturers who did not make the turn. We are seeing the same play out with EVs.

Hello there,

Thats 60k per EV , meaning “we “are paying for this with our ICE
purchases for 75k, and Raptors for 150 K.

Now the Biden administration comes to the rescue and buys the whole mess , if they can. It is however , staring down an election year.

Seems it was not that long ago , that Uncle Sam bought the entire Industry to begin with, as to keep it from failing .

Round 2 coming !

 

[Snakebitten]

There are already a LOT of makes/models built/assembled in the USA that are not Ford/GM/Stellantist.

Why can those others prosper and avoid these labor battles here better than the home grown brands?
And they are opening new factories now and in the near future.
I have a hard time believing that they are abusing their American employees.

 

[HammaMan]

There are already a LOT of makes/models built/assembled in the USA that are not Ford/GM/Stellantist.

Why can those others prosper and avoid these labor battles here better than the home grown brands?
And they are opening new factories now and in the near future.
I have a hard time believing that they are abusing their American employees.

Isn't the tundra the most 'american' made truck on the market? Designed and built in the US.

 

[Snakebitten]

Right here in Texas too.
Like I said, I don't think those folks in Fort Worth are getting bullied or taken advantage of.

 

[HammaMan]

Ford already pays nearly 20% more than those the so called 'non-us' manufacturers here in the states. Something smells funny about it all..... Their compensation is ~64$ / hr for UAW

 

[JJSnell]

Here’s a few thoughts I ponder.
I felt a previous employer wasn’t paying me what I was worth for my time, talents and energy I was providing to them. I simply left that company and went to another company that did.
I wonder what happens for the future of the big three companies if they are forced to cave in to the demands? I wonder if that will be the end of Detroit and the American auto workers as these companies start to look at shedding these financial demands by simply closing more plants in America and begin to open more in Mexico and abroad? I wonder, however, will the narrative be in a few years that the big 3 sold out American jobs or will it be the AWU forced themselves out of jobs?
No raise is free. Stock holders will want their returns. Price increases for vehicles will be inevitable in a time where interest rates are already keeping many from purchasing vehicles and customers already fed up with the current prices for new vehicles. Now add in greater price increases to cover new cost of labor if workers demand is met.
Folks need to pay attention here. There is a far greater concern here than just workers wanting a substantial pay raise. The automobile industry in America as we know it maybe forever changed. And not for the better.

Union members never quit their jobs... even at its "worst" it's better than anything else they can get.
Notice how Teachers b!¥€# and complain about pay, but they never leave???
We have family that are teachers and their 401k, pension and medical benefits are unbeatable.... couple all of that with 9 month work year...
Both my kids are going to college to become teachers.
Back to UAW. They will strike, throw a tizzy and get their way, but none of them will quit. 0.00% will quit....

 

[wessermgm]

Tesla's growth is exponential right now. Not linear, not stagnated, exponential. VW just laid off their EV workforce in germany because tesla and the chinese took all of the business. I don't think elon is a messiah but he's got 100x the capacity to get shit done than just about any CEO out there. He's revolutionized EVs and by extension automotive in general, and his accolades in space launch and communications is unparalleled as well. He's rolled out more features to twitter in 8 months than they had done in the last 5 years AFTER firing 85% of the staff.

Credit where it's due.

It doesn't even matter if Ford and GM manage to successfully transition to EVs to Musk. Both Ford and GM bent the knee and having accepted the Supercharger as their charging platform, which means Musk still makes $ off of Ford sales as well. His competitior's customers will be beholden to his monopoly on his EV charging network. He managed to become this century's Henry Ford and John Rockefeller.

 

[HammaMan]

It doesn't even matter if Ford and GM manage to successfully transition to EVs to Musk. Both Ford and GM bent the knee and having accepted the Supercharger as their charging platform, which means Musk still makes $ off of Ford sales as well. His competitior's customers will be beholden to his monopoly on his EV charging network. He managed to become this century's Henry Ford and John Rockefeller.

They adopted the connector going forward because it's better. Said better connector is also an open standard for ALL to use FREE. They're not giving musk $ because of the port, they're giving him $ because he's the only that has a global charging system that works. Anyone and everyone can step up to the plate and start building working charging infrastructure. The only thing you'd hear from EV owners is squeals of delight.

Screwing with CCS is precisely the experience you'd expect from something designed by committee. Tesla still doesn't even advertise....

 

[garagegymgoon]

Completely agree, that’s why I feel unions are sort of archaic. If your are a performer, someone will pay you more $$ to come to them. More money is always available if you have skills. Employers who refuse to pay more for performance get swallowed up and cucked out by those that do and get their lunch eaten. It sort of self regulates.

Nailed it!

 

[garagegymgoon]

Mexico is the 'new' china. Cheaper labor, no tariffs. UAW is all but demanding US auto to move south of the border. I wouldn't at all be surprised to hear that there's a push to get the illegals working to 'solve' these issues. NY is desperately trying to solve their tiny fraction of the issue by putting them to work. None of this is going to turn out in the manner their fairytale beliefs pretend it will. Tesla even building a plant in MX.

Not to mention quality is better from Mexico facilities...wanna know why??? Accountability. Employees know their job depend on it.

 

[Hullguy]

Let’s continue to offshore our American jobs instead of paying the American workers wages and benefits that allow them to live comfortably in our Country. This is what I’m reading in theses anti UAW posts
The Big Three combined made $37.2 billion last year!
Dont forget, the UAW made huge concessions on pay and benefits to keep these companies alive in 2008.

 

[fordtruckman2003]

There are already a LOT of makes/models built/assembled in the USA that are not Ford/GM/Stellantist.

Why can those others prosper and avoid these labor battles here better than the home grown brands?
And they are opening new factories now and in the near future.
I have a hard time believing that they are abusing their American employees.

Honda plant here $15/hr.
At the moment McDonald's pays that.
Takes 3 years to get raise to $17/hr.
Warehouses start off higher than that.

At least that is how it was described to me but someone that left there to work where I am.

 

[wessermgm]

Honda plant here $15/hr.
At the moment McDonald's pays that.
Takes 3 years to get raise to $17/hr.
Warehouses start off higher than that.

At least that is how it was described to me but someone that left there to work where I am.

That sounds similar to the San Antonio Toyota truck plant. Starting pay for line workers is about $16/hour and average sounds about $22-24. Most make in the mid-$30s-mid $40k range. Nothing like what the UAW workers get. Worse, the quality perception of the Toyota is better.

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