Trans fluid "flush" / exchange, or drop pan drain?

[FirstFord]

I know the Owner's Manual says to change the transmission fluid at 150,000 miles, but I also read/see a LOT of info suggesting making fluid changes at 30,000 or 50,000 miles instead. And then there's is the debate of flush vs. drop pan change. A Service Advisor at my local dealership told me something along the lines of "Ford has issued a notice to avoid dropping the pan if possible, and exchange fluid instead."

Of course, factors like towing and hauling weights and frequency are a huge factor, but I'm looking to keep this truck forever and am learning that the 10R80 serms to be weak point. Any thoughts on this?

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[obert]

This what I am going to do.

Replace pan with PPE with drain plug, replace filter and replace whatever fluid will drain out.

And then replace fluid as needed.

I know I will not be able to get all the fluid due to the torque converter but that’s ok.

You will get lots of different options on this situation.

 

[Buyer2021]

FWIW attached is the only procedure in the 2022 Workshop Manual as of 09/29/2021. Maybe Ford has updated their recommendation on this?

 

[FirstFord]

That is a lot of very useful information, and I will add it to my library. But to me, the question is still open...

 

[Buyer2021]

I know I will not be able to get all the fluid due to the torque converter but that’s ok.

If that really bothers you, there's this linked from the BITOG website ....

Transmission Fluid (ATF) or Coolant fractional dilution/fill calculator - Google Sheets

 

[Buyer2021]

.... learning that the 10R80 serms [sic] to be weak point. Any thoughts on this?

If you need a 10R80 'weak point' to be concerned about for your "forever" truck, see the attached and search the forum for 'CDF Drum'. This potential problem is not mitigated by fluid-change frequency, it's matter of a 'component design shortcoming' and replacement with an upgraded part.

A max miles / years PremiumCare ESP may be your best investment for a "forever" truck.

 

[jhelrey]

Mity Vac. Drop pan. Replace filter. Reinstall pan. Top off fluid. In 30K miles, suck out the old fluid, put fresh in. Won't be a 100% swap of fluid, but better than nothing and no risk of damage due to flushing.

 

[UGADawg96]

It was so easy when we had Hondas to drain and fill 3.5qt every 30k miles with the magnetic drain plug on the bottom and no filter.

 

[Davexxxx]

Interested in this thread, since my truck would qualify as being used in heavy service.

Close to half of its mileage is towing 7K and if things go according to plan, that ratio will markedly increase to 2/3s or more.

 

[FaaWrenchBndr]

Drain and fill every 30-50k

Wish PPE had a pan available for the Powerboost’s 10R80MT

 

[adaycj]

Just my experiences. On my last F150, a 2019 with a 10r80 I towed 40k of the 83k I owned it. My trans failed. The F clutch started to get caught on the reaction shell indentations. I replaced the CDF drum at the same time, but the bushing had only moved maybe 0.005. Just enough to see. While I did change the fluid twice, it didn't prevent the failures because the design defects aren't lubrication related failures. I certainly would suck and fill the fluid because 15k of towing had turned it very dark. Almost black.

There is no "flush" on these transmissions because the cooler bolts right on the trans. It's suck and fill, or pan drop and fill. When I rebuilt my trans I sucked out the fluid from the dipstick/fill hole. There was less than a quart in the pan when I started disassembly. The filter is a high capacity hepa level filter. If that thing is full you need work anyway. Mine wasn't full, and 90% of my F clutch was in it. The two methods gain the same result.

 

[FirstFord]

If you need a 10R80 'weak point' to be concerned about for your "forever" truck, see the attached and search the forum for 'CDF Drum'. This potential problem is not mitigated by fluid-change frequency, it's matter of a 'component design shortcoming' and replacement with an upgraded part.

Yes, I am aware of the drum issue, and it is my understanding that Ford has made some improvements with this component, but I guess the jury is still out as to if it is an actual solution or not. In any case, my '22 has the "unimproved" drum.

To be completely fair, I am not experiencing any issues with the transmission at all - never have (maybe I'm one of the lucky ones). So, I'm not trying to "fix" something that is wrong with the trans. In any case, I'm a believer in preventative maintenance, and want to do what I can to make this trans last.

I have reasoned that regardless of the method - fluid exchange or drop the pan - I'll still be getting (roughly) the same amount of fluid out, and knowing that I will still be leaving behind fluid in the toque converter and the valve body. So it seems to me that the differences in methods are that the fluid exchange is easier, neater, and faster. But dropping the pan allows you to change the filter. (And I still have echoing in the back of my head what the dealership service advisor told me - that now Ford recommends doing a fluid exchange instead of dropping the pan, and Ford wants the trans to remain sealed and closed).

But if I drop the pan....... That actually opens up a whole set of additional talking points. If I'm going to go through the trouble (and the mess) of dropping the pan, then this would be the time to replace the pan with an aftermarket pan that is finned aluminum and has a drain plug (like a PPE). This would also be the time to drop the valve body and add clips such as these: https://suncoastdiesel.com/i-305010...10r80-solenoid-stabilization-clip-insert.html
It is my understanding that clips such as these help prevent issues with the valve body, and maybe even the drum.

 

[ks54703]

Only back a flush in a card game.

Talking transmissions it is a drain by pan removal or pan removal after sucking out the fluid.

Then CLEAN THE PAN of all residue for a inspection for any tell tale signs of future problems.

Follow MFG's recommended procedures when servicing and closing up.

That is how I was trained in the 70's and that's still how it is done here today.

 

[HammaMan]

If you drop the pan and loosen the valve body bolts, you'll get much more fluid out of the trans leaving only what hasn't come out of the TC. At the very least I'd measure the fluid you're able to get out and use that as starting place for fluid refill. Do keep in mind you need to fill the pan, start it, and then add more fluid. PB keeps a higher pan level than the non PB trucks.

I won't be dropping the pan for a filter change until 60k miles unless I decide to rebuild the valve body w/ better spools. Too many projects going on right now and I'm just crazy enough to consider dropping the entire trans and tear into it. Though if I could get a good low mileage unit from a wrecked truck that might be what I play with.

 

[FirstFord]

If you drop the pan and loosen the valve body bolts, you'll get much more fluid out of the trans leaving only what hasn't come out of the TC.

Yes, as I mentioned in an earlier post, if I do drop the pan, I'll also drop the valve body - not only to get additional fluid out, but also to use the opportunity to add the clips... They aren't expensive, and I'm thinking it might be cheap insurance. (??) ?‍

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