New battery; H7 or H8?

[Sojourner]

Have seen that... Spent more time on the lead acid section... Bottom line: don't get a Lithium battery...

Unless you're willing to siphon off some of the lithium battery's potential to keep it heated most lithium batteries BMS chip/circuit really curtail activity as temps approach freezing. They're the residential heat pumps of the battery world when it comes to cold weather work.

(I know this b/c when I finally finish my solar array I'm gonna have to use some of the battery array's capacity to heat the enclosure in order to keep the batteries doing their thing....)

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[KTM753]

They're the residential heat pumps of the battery world when it comes to cold weather work.

I like that analogy, it's a good parallel.

 

[Sojourner]

Interesting post just showed up here on the F150Gen14 site:
https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/lithium-batteries.23260/

When I made my comment (above) I was only addressing the battery. This F150 thread discusses issues on the truck side, re: lithium batteries (which may be substantial and negative). Worth the read.

 

[HSV_MIkeJ]

If your truck is still under warranty, it should be replace by your dealership for free. I believe Ford has 3yr/36m battery replacement under the bumper to bumper warranty. If you want to go that route...

The battery isn't bad it is just not big enough, some of Ford own literature say for well equip XLT or Lariats and above a larger battery is required, but the dealerships are bound by what the factory installed. Best bet is just put an H8 in

 

[Jersey Jim]

Have a 2021 XLT 5.0 with the stock H6 battery. I just bought an H8 from NAPA. I hopefully found the cover from a Canadian place (said they had one in stock at their warehouse..we'll see) and ordered it. Once the cover is in I'll install everything.

I have the same question as Gooby asked...Are any forscan changes needed due to the larger battery, or is the battery monitor reset all that needs to be done?
Thanks

You Absolutely have to tell the vehicle you have a larger "bucket" of amps installed. In my example, I have an H6 (70 AH) battery from the factory, which let me down and dead at work this week after 2-1/2 years in my 2021 2.7L.
When my SOC states 80% most days, that means that that 80% of 70 Ah flowed into the battery. This is 56 Ah contained in the battery. This is metered by the bi-directional amp-flow sensor mounted on the battery's negative terminal post.
I'm currently looking to put an H8, 95 Ah battery in the truck this week. If I don't change the battery size via Forscan, then when driving charges to 80% SOC again, only that same 56 Ah will get stored into a new 95 Ah "Bucket". We unwittingly now have only 59% stored of the larger battery's capacity, but will still only contain 56 Ah and falsely display 80% SOC. Make sense? If you make the Forscan change, 80% SOC will be accurate, now representing (and allowing) 76 Ah to be stored in the larger battery instead of only 56 Ah.

I'm sorry if this was answered later in the thread, but I only read halfway through these 8 pages. I haven't been on here in a year or so, but was trying to see what H7 or H8 batteries everyone has been replacing with. All I remember was Platinum.

Good Luck.

........ I believe a good 70 Ah battrery would have worked fine, but when 5 or so minutes into my daily commute, and I'm showing 14.8 volts is being presented to the original battery, yet only 1 amp is all that flows, that is an "internal resistance" problem with the battery. At that 1 amp rate, it will take 42 minutes to increase my battery just 1% SOC (0.7 Ah).
I suspect my 70 Ah battery had the actual diminished capacity of about a 40 Ah battery.

 

[imnuts]

You Absolutely have to tell the vehicle you have a larger "bucket" of amps installed.

Unless something changed, there are no options for battery size in the Gen 14 trucks, only state of charge.

 

[Jersey Jim]

Myself and others are big fans of this Bluetooth battery monitor. I can monitor my battery voltage without opening the hood. I can monitor it live while driving. I can see history up to 7 days. It's a great option for $29.

QUICKLYNKS Auto Battery Monitor BM2 Bluetooth 4.0 12V Device Car Battery Tester

https://a.co/d/h8a29Tn

Here is today's stats:

My battery was ~12.3 volts overnight.

I had mine disconnected for over a year, but reconnected it on Feb. 19th. It still has every second of data for those past 2-1/2 months. I just scrolled back to make sure. You can display 1 day, 7 days or 15 days of data on a single page, but you can scroll through months of data. I always thought it was 30 days, but your post just got me thinking, so I just checked it. Is a great device!

 

[Jersey Jim]

Unless something changed, there are no options for battery size in the Gen 14 trucks, only state of charge.

Thanks nuts, I was just about to go out and find it. I was under the impression there was an H6, H7 & H8 size choice someone posted. Does that go for a 2021 2.7L eco ICE?

Ford must never expect any different capacity sized battery to be installed. Since the alternator doesn't charge any faster, and voltage constantly swings up and down throughout a trip, the current-flow shunt is the only way to tell how full the battery SOC is (once a resting voltage SOC is performed after 6 undisturbed hours). "A large bucket takes longer to fill than a smaller one".

As far as the target SOC parameter is concerned, I spent considerable time changing and observing any possible changes in performance due this variable. I got the impression that it probably triggers events on the "decrease" of SOC, and not the "increase" reaching that threshold while driving.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

 

[KTM753]

Thanks nuts, I was just about to go out and find it. I was under the impression there was an H6, H7 & H8 size choice someone posted. Does that go for a 2021 2.7L eco ICE?

Ford must never expect any different capacity sized battery to be installed. Since the alternator doesn't charge any faster, and voltage constantly swings up and down throughout a trip, the current-flow shunt is the only way to tell how full the battery SOC is (once a resting voltage SOC is performed after 6 undisturbed hours). "A large bucket takes longer to fill than a smaller one".

As far as the target SOC parameter is concerned, I spent considerable time changing and observing any possible changes in performance due this variable. I got the impression that it probably triggers events on the "decrease" of SOC, and not the "increase" reaching that threshold while driving.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

I would read this other thread for more info on the same topic. Is your truck receiving over the air updates regularly?

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/factory-battery-ongoing-issues.22496/page-13#post-453266

 

[Gros Ventre]

The discussion on batteries and state of charge is misleading. Many seem to rely on the computer to monitor and tell them what's going on. I find these erroneous. State of charge can be measured via the no load terminal voltage. Tracking the amps in & out only gives one an approximation. After seeing some anomalous readings on my truck (& while on the road traveling), I replaced the OEM battery with a stock item (NAPA). No issues since. Still I was uncomfortable with things since I couldn't tell what's going on, so I installed a standard, good old, voltmeter. I discovered that the system voltage programming seemed a bit odd. After the weather finally warmed up ( I'm in Wyoming where winters get down to -30ºF) I discovered that the programming does follow the temperature formula for float voltage. Oddly it appears that the temperature sensor for the program is outside the engine compartment. This leads to much higher float voltages in the winter than I suspect the actual battery temperature would call for. So, what's my conclusion? First Ford has had a bad batch of batteries. Second Ford's programming for system, and therefore battery applied voltage, follows known formulae for lead acid batteries (both for charging and floating). Third Ford placed their controlling temperature sensor in an odd place outside the engine compartment (pax side mirror). In Wyoming winters when the temperature gets down to -30ºF but you're driving for 5 or 6 hours at interstate speeds, you'd expect the battery float voltage to eventually reflect the battery & engine compartment temperature. Well, it doesn't and that threw me. But I suspect that is not good in that it shows up in higher than needed float voltages in the winter which in turn can overcharge the battery. AGM Batteries are more susceptible to overcharging damage. Haven't had my replacement battery long enough to see if the overcharge thing is actually going on... Folks are so taken with what the computer says that they are overlooking things. If you've been on the road for an hour or so and the float voltage is correct for a fully charged battery, I don't care what the computer says. The chemistry says the battery is charged. But then, if you have one of those OEM batteries I believe to be defective... well, all bets are off. I cannot make sense of what I've seen reported by those sticking with the OEM battery.

 

[Jersey Jim]

....................... The only thing I noticed that seemed to change is the alternator charging voltage dropped from 15-15.1V to topping out at about 14.6V. I can't be certain that the change in voltage was a direct result of the Forscan change, but I'll continue to monitor it and if it continues to max out at 14.6V, I'll consider it directly correlated.

Outdoor temperature can affect the charging voltage by a volt, easily. Maybe more. Ventura is probably more familiar with temperature compensation values. I've been running my 2.7L ICE alternator in "dumb-mode" with a consistent voltage, until SOC hits 102%. Late day yesterday alternator charged with a steady 13.7-13.8V. This morning was cooler and charged with a steady 14.05V.
But that IS one of the biggest considerations with various chemistries, is their recommended applied voltages. Not amps. Different chemistries can hold similar Amp-hours, and their internal resistances lend themselves to "self regulating" their absorption to a degree when full (If constant voltage mode), which is how our vehicles operate.

So with all things being held equal, compare performances on a cold morning then a hot afternoon and you should see charging voltage variations.

 

[FORDTEXAS]

does anybody know if the H8 blankets are back in stock or not??

 

[jhelrey]

does anybody know if the H8 blankets are back in stock or not??

I didn't buy one when I replaced my battery with an H8.

 

[Rineland]

Outdoor temperature can affect the charging voltage by a volt, easily. Maybe more. Ventura is probably more familiar with temperature compensation values. I've been running my 2.7L ICE alternator in "dumb-mode" with a consistent voltage, until SOC hits 102%. Late day yesterday alternator charged with a steady 13.7-13.8V. This morning was cooler and charged with a steady 14.05V.
But that IS one of the biggest considerations with various chemistries, is their recommended applied voltages. Not amps. Different chemistries can hold similar Amp-hours, and their internal resistances lend themselves to "self regulating" their absorption to a degree when full (If constant voltage mode), which is how our vehicles operate.

So with all things being held equal, compare performances on a cold morning then a hot afternoon and you should see charging voltage variations.

This. 100%. I meant to chime back in after I set the battery type back to AGM from flooded lead acid. The charging profile voltages change with temperature. The difference I was seeing and have been noticing are correlated with temperature. I don’t think that flooded lead acid forscan setting really changed much at all. In fact, one of my OTAs took multiple attempts to install while I had it configured this way. Awhile after I changed the value back to stock (AGM) and the next OTA went through without issue. I think cold climates and winter are also just a bad time to receive an OTA because the truck seems to heavily weight the SOC on voltage. Many times I’d notice the resting voltage in the low 12.1-12.2 range. Now that it’s warmer, I’ll check after the truck has sat for a few days and it’s still 12.4-12.6 and I’ve had no issue with failed updates.

 

[Calson]

A lithium phosphate battery needs to be charged with a device that has a specific charging profile for this type of battery. My RVs had such chargers but this is not something you will find in a pickup truck. This type of battery is difficult to charge in cold weather and cannot be charged at all at temps below 10 degrees. Not a problem for spring and summer use in an RV.

I bought an Optima H7 80 Ah with 1000 CA which was greater than most H8 batteries being sold. The battery tray in my 2022 F-150 will hold a H8 battery.

The H7 is standard in the higher trim level trucks and the H8 in vehicles for law enforcement.

In checking for battery issues with Ram 1500 owners I could only find people having to replace their batteries after 5 or more years of use. Battery draining problems are not an issue with the Ram pickups.

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