Is Disabling Shifter Fold Button Harmful?

[Sojourner]

This is a FANTASTIC thread. TY, @FirstFord for starting it. And TY, @HammaMan for all the info in your replies!

Absolutely worth watching/bookmarking. ?

Sponsored

 

[FirstFord]

This is a FANTASTIC thread. TY, @FirstFord for starting it. And TY, @HammaMan for all the info in your replies!

Absolutely worth watching/bookmarking. ?

Thanks, but I really can't take that much credit for it - it was @Korça 's idea, and I just started heading down the rabbit hole....

 

[FirstFord]

@HammaMan , in an earlier, unrelated post, I remember one time @Snakebitten saying that he envisioned you as being like a "mad scientist", experimenting, and pushing the limits of almost any envelope you can find. You yourself admitted that you like to "try to break things", because that's how you learn where the limits are. I FULLY understand - and appreciate - that line of thinking. And furthermore, you are correct! That's just not me. I don't want to use my truck as a guinea pig. In fact, I'm the opposite of you - I'm scared I might break something!

However, with your encouragement, I went ahead and tried what you suggested - I pulled the double fuse of F6 / F7. For full effect, I went ahead and folded down the shifter first, then turned the truck off. Then I pulled the aforementioned fuse, and turned the truck back on (I did not attempt to start it). It worked! The shifter was dead as a door nail. I also got a fault warning on the instrument cluster telling me to "Service Vehicle Soon", and to see my dealer, so it tripped a DTC. (So, YES, I did make the truck mad.) I turned the truck off, and replaced the fuse. I turned the truck back on. Everything worked again, but I still had the Service Vehicle Soon message. I got out my laptop and OBDII cord, got into FORScan and got a copy of the DTC:

I cleared the DTC, and it appears that it did not come back.

Soooooo, this now triggers a whole bunch more questions:
- Assuming that that circuit is in fact switched as we have been talking about, if you flip the hidden switch to "Off" after you shut down the truck (when the ignition is off), and flip the switch back "On" prior to starting the truck, will it still trigger a DTC?
- It is my understanding that some of these modules stay energized for various amounts of time. I'm guessing that you would have to wait for that particular module to "die" before you flipped the hidden switch to not trigger a DTC. Would that be correct? If so, how long would that be?
- You mentioned that there is a connector (C215 for floor shifter) "under the glove box". Can you be more specific as to where it is located?

I would strongly prefer to somehow make a "T" type connector that I could wire the hidden switch into rather than cutting the OE harness.

 

[HammaMan]

Yeah, the truck doesn't go to sleep immediately upon power down. Some modules do go to sleep once the door is open, but quite a few don't. I've made the truck real mad before using various conditions / disconnects / ground floats in various states of 'wake'. Some will clear automatically on key cycle, I've triggered SSN and SVS. SSN is a more serious error that must be cleared for it to work. It really doesn't like the hybrid system to just vanish while running, who'd have thunk it

You can have the truck in run, driver's door open, you on passenger side, hit power down button, pull fuse within 10 seconds. Close up the truck for ~10m or so, come back, put the fuse in and then start it up and see if it's mad.

Another avenue, turn off the truck, open/close driver's door, leave open passenger door, leave it for 10 minutes, go back out pull the fuse (after 10m has passed). Close passenger door (all doors closed), immediately open passenger's door, put fuse back in, go back to driver's side and start, are there codes? (determining logic potentials, the accessory delay circuit can be used to keep the shifter live for xx minutes)

That fuse also kills the door window control switch (drivers) so you may see an error for that but it wouldn't be there w/ the disconnect option.

 

[FirstFord]

Yeah, the truck doesn't go to sleep immediately upon power down. Some modules do go to sleep once the door is open, but quite a few don't.

So, in the end, this idea may not work that well after all - that is, it may not be practical. It sounds like you have to wait in a hot or cold truck while this specific module takes its time to power down - or don't wait, and trigger a DTC. Neither option is very attractive.....

 

[FirstFord]

You can have the truck in run, driver's door open, you on passenger side, hit power down button, pull fuse within 10 seconds. Close up the truck for ~10m or so, come back, put the fuse in and then start it up and see if it's mad.

Another avenue, turn off the truck, open/close driver's door, leave open passenger door, leave it for 10 minutes, go back out pull the fuse (after 10m has passed). Close passenger door (all doors closed), immediately open passenger's door, put fuse back in, go back to driver's side and start, are there codes? (determining logic potentials, the accessory delay circuit can be used to keep the shifter live for xx minutes)

That fuse also kills the door window control switch (drivers) so you may see an error for that but it wouldn't be there w/ the disconnect option.

^^ Did you edit and add that later??? I swear, I didn't see that originally! Or am I just getting a little nuttier?

 

[HammaMan]

^^ Did you edit and add that later??? I swear, I didn't see that originally! Or am I just getting a little nuttier?

Yeah, to clarify the variables to check. Sometimes what I mean and say can differ slightly so I edit to remove ambiguity.

I draw an outline in my head of a system begin to 'test' it, then I try and articulate the system into words. I'll black out my senses and go into thought, I'm weird like that.

 

[FirstFord]

Yeah, to clarify the variables to check.

Whew - that's a relief. I thought I was on my way to losing it....

By the way....

I've triggered SSN and SVS. SSN is a more serious error that must be cleared for it to work.

SSN?
SVS?
I'm not up on all the lingo....

 

[HammaMan]

SSN stop safely now / dead powertrain
SVS service vehicle soon

 

[FirstFord]

You can have the truck in run, driver's door open, you on passenger side, hit power down button, pull fuse within 10 seconds. Close up the truck for ~10m or so, come back, put the fuse in and then start it up and see if it's mad.

Another avenue, turn off the truck, open/close driver's door, leave open passenger door, leave it for 10 minutes, go back out pull the fuse (after 10m has passed). Close passenger door (all doors closed), immediately open passenger's door, put fuse back in, go back to driver's side and start, are there codes? (determining logic potentials, the accessory delay circuit can be used to keep the shifter live for xx minutes)

I don't like making my truck mad.... but I'll take a crack at this (likely tomorrow).

 

[FirstFord]

Another avenue, turn off the truck, open/close driver's door, leave open passenger door, leave it for 10 minutes, go back out pull the fuse (after 10m has passed). Close passenger door (all doors closed), immediately open passenger's door, put fuse back in, go back to driver's side and start, are there codes? (determining logic potentials, the accessory delay circuit can be used to keep the shifter live for xx minutes)

Okay... this was interesting....

I performed the task as you described above. After the test task was performed and I turned the truck back on (and started it), I had NO warnings on the instrument display. Still, I hooked up my laptop and checked for DTCs. None.

 

[FirstFord]

So..... is that the answer? Hook up a hidden switch, but wait 10 minutes before flipping it?

Would it be possible to hook up a delay-timer? Maybe something along these lines:
https://www.amazon.com/Small-Timer-..._tag=se&qid=1743191705&sr=8-3&srs=79473769011

 

[FirstFord]

The 10 minute known window time is an excellent data point - we now know how to avoid triggering active warnings and DTC's (or as @HammaMan puts it, "pissing off the truck" or "making the truck mad" ). On the other hand, it reinforces my earlier thought that adding a hidden switch may not be practical after all (sitting in the truck, watching the clock when it's 15 degrees out, or 102 degrees... ?), unless some kind of delay timer could be accompanied with the hidden switch - you flip the switch, and the action of breaking the connection is delayed by 10 minutes (and it seems to me the timer itself would have to be powered...). I see that such delay-timer components exist, but I have never utilized one or know much about them, and I'm not sure as to how it should be wired....

For those of you following this thread, without any other additional input from people smarter than I am, the above is the conclusion that I am forced to draw - sit and wait 10 minutes, or figure out how to incorporate some kind of delay timer.

 

[Darrell78]

I may have missed it but did you try the route of
Shut the truck off
Pull the fuse right away
Walk away and lock
Come back unlock
Install fuse
Start truck
See if it triggered anything
This routine would be as if you installed the shut off switch the way you want it to work.

 

[FirstFord]

I may have missed it but did you try the route of
Shut the truck off
Pull the fuse right away
Walk away and lock
Come back unlock
Install fuse
Start truck
See if it triggered anything
This routine would be as if you installed the shut off switch the way you want it to work.

No, I have not tried that series of actions. I have pretty much been following @HammaMan 's direction (he knows this stuff a million times better than I do....).

I follow your reasoning and logic on your suggested experiment, but I think what @HammaMan 's assigned tasks/directions has demonstrated is that the module remains powered for 10 minutes (or maybe a little less), and as long as it is powered, it will throw a warning /DTC if power is interrupted before it times out on its own. But that being said, who knows - maybe you're on to something....

Sponsored