gas engine starting then almost immediately shutting down every 20 seconds. no electrical load and no HVAC request

[danker]

normal operation up till now, while engine running and in park the gas engine will start and run and shut down as need be but now... the gas engine will start (every 10-20 sec.) and shut off 2 seconds later an continue to do this for some time. (as a side note, battery state of charge is 86% or higher according to the PID's)it will do this even when every accessory including lights and HVAC have been turned off.

the other symptom I am having that is new is...

usually when at a stop, gas engine off but vehicle is in run mode. the electric motor for the hybrid transmission will shut off completely when in park and foot off the brake or during assisted brake hold, then you apply the brake and the electric engine will start up in anticipation of driving away (normal operation) but now I am noticing that the electric motor is doing the same sort of thing as the gas engine where the electrical motor is starting and stopping on a very frequent basis almost every 4 sec. whether it is in park (no electrical or heating request) or in drive with assisted brake hold on.

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[HammaMan]

That's a new one, what codes?

Try pulling both batteries and letting the truck reboot.

 

[danker]

That's a new one, what codes?

Try pulling both batteries and letting the truck reboot.

I have no codes pertaining directly to this issue but I am also dealing with intermittent wrench light and codes for the aux transmission fluid pump pressure sensor and intermittent safely pull over now message with code for aux transmission fluid pump pressure. I do believe the concerns are related but wanted to see if there are any other posts of the original concern I posted to see if they may be separate issues.

the most part a battery disconnect is not going to remove any information stored in the computer, only clears volatile RAM. Whatever is causing this has to do with the vehicle thinking it wants an event to happen and commits to that event then it changes its mind. with no codes it is indicating that the system is working within acceptable working parameters but what is happening with the gas engine start stop and the electrical motor start stop does not seem to be in normal parameters based off the last 3 years of driving this vehicle.

 

[HammaMan]

Don't take any chances w/ the aux pump!!! That's the fastest way to kill the hybrid drive unit and eventually the trans. That's a $10k mistake!

Take it to the dealer -- that should be a 'unique hybrid component'. Don't let them fish you in with some diagnostics BS fee. Ask quite clearly if they'll replace the aux pump under the powertrain or hybrid warranty.

The absolute one set of codes you do not ignore in the PB are the ones dealing with the aux trans pump

 

[danker]

Don't take any chances w/ the aux pump!!! That's the fastest way to kill the hybrid drive unit and eventually the trans. That's a $10k mistake!

Take it to the dealer -- that should be a 'unique hybrid component'. Don't let them fish you in with some diagnostics BS fee. Ask quite clearly if they'll replace the aux pump under the powertrain or hybrid warranty.

The absolute one set of codes you do not ignore in the PB are the ones dealing with the aux trans pump

I'm past any base or powertrain warranty and I already know that the aux transmission fluid pump is not covered under the hybrid extended warranty.
my relationship with my dealer is very good and I am good friends with the smartest tech in that shop, just trying to do some research for the both of us to alleviate redundant diagnostics if the 2 are related.
as for the fluid pump and sensor codes I am currently waiting for parts I have ordered to install.

 

[HammaMan]

Okay, well I'd be cautious with the truck in this condition. I've seen the bill from someone ignoring these codes, $9k in parts alone. The aux pump swap is cheap insurance at least.

ULV trans fluid is stupid cheap right now -- don't go paying 5x more for it at the dealer.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8319292&cc=3450631&pt=11387&jsn=670
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=16361049&cc=3450631&pt=11387&jsn=671

Are you going to do this yourself? I'd replace the filter while you're in there as well as loosen the valve body bolts to drain it. That should get you ~11qts or so out of the trans. Also I'd buy the 2 rubber jumper hoses that go between the pan and the aux valve area.

Hybrid has a unique filter FT217
2 of these BL8Z7G199A (little rubber bridge things)

 

[danker]

Okay, well I'd be cautious with the truck in this condition. I've seen the bill from someone ignoring these codes, $9k in parts alone.

believe me I'm not ignoring them, the problem is, it is so intermittent when this crap happens non of us can do a proper data capture of the position and requested position of the disconnect clutch to continue with the diagnostics. that's why I'm just going to throw some parts at it and save myself the "can not duplicate customer concern" bill.
still have hybrid warranty so that's good.

 

[HammaMan]

believe me I'm not ignoring them, the problem is, it is so intermittent when this crap happens non of us can do a proper data capture of the position and requested position of the disconnect clutch to continue with the diagnostics. that's why I'm just going to throw some parts at it and save myself the "can not duplicate customer concern" bill.
still have hybrid warranty so that's good.

Well that'd cover the hybrid drive unit, but not the trans. The trans is 5k of the 9k bill!

Updated the post above w/ more info for you.

The little hoses are here -- those go to the motor spray bar to cool it and control the hybrid clutch.

 

[danker]

Okay, well I'd be cautious with the truck in this condition. I've seen the bill from someone ignoring these codes, $9k in parts alone. The aux pump swap is cheap insurance at least.

ULV trans fluid is stupid cheap right now -- don't go paying 5x more for it at the dealer.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8319292&cc=3450631&pt=11387&jsn=670
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=16361049&cc=3450631&pt=11387&jsn=671

Are you going to do this yourself? I'd replace the filter while you're in there as well as loosen the valve body bolts to drain it. That should get you ~11qts or so out of the trans. Also I'd buy the 2 rubber jumper hoses that go between the pan and the aux valve area.

Hybrid has a unique filter

If I had a hoist at home I would but the hybrids are not fun to take the transmission pan off. the 10R80s on previous models were a cake walk compared to these things to remove. the cats and the y-pipe have to be dropped which means dropping the transmission rear crossmember under the transfer case just to drop the pan. the pressure sensor Ill take care of but going to have to send it to the dealer for the fluid pump. along with the fact the QR code on the pump needs to be programed into the PCM and a parameter reset needs to be done all with the ford FDRS

 

[HammaMan]

You can buy room w/ the exhaust w/ a crowbar -- it's flexible enough. I didn't take any pics w/ the various transfer case swaps I've done. Putting the truck's tires on 6x6x12" blocks in the rear with the same on top of 2x8s in front buys enough room to comfortably work. Railroad ties cut down to 1' long works great too, set the ebrake.

 

[danker]

You can buy room w/ the exhaust w/ a crowbar -- it's flexible enough. I didn't take any pics w/ the various transfer case swaps I've done. Putting the truck's tires on 6x6x12" blocks in the rear with the same on top of 2x8s in front buys enough room to comfortably work. Railroad ties cut down to 1' long works great too, set the ebrake.

I kind of wondered about that, I used to be a ford mechanic for about 10 years till I got my current job so I'm not unfamiliar with working on them and I was always pretty good and finding easier ways to go about doing things without damaging anything but the problem still remains that the aux fluid pump has a QR code on it that needs to be scanned and then the number needs to be put into the PCM programing before it can be driven so regardless, I have to get my dealer to do it as I don't really have access to the FDRS to use it for a weekend job in the driveway.

 

[Powerboost_Law]

I have no codes pertaining directly to this issue but I am also dealing with intermittent wrench light and codes for the aux transmission fluid pump pressure sensor and intermittent safely pull over now message with code for aux transmission fluid pump pressure. I do believe the concerns are related but wanted to see if there are any other posts of the original concern I posted to see if they may be separate issues.

the most part a battery disconnect is not going to remove any information stored in the computer, only clears volatile RAM. Whatever is causing this has to do with the vehicle thinking it wants an event to happen and commits to that event then it changes its mind. with no codes it is indicating that the system is working within acceptable working parameters but what is happening with the gas engine start stop and the electrical motor start stop does not seem to be in normal parameters based off the last 3 years of driving this vehicle.

I have no codes pertaining directly to this issue but I am also dealing with intermittent wrench light and codes for the aux transmission fluid pump pressure sensor and intermittent safely pull over now message with code for aux transmission fluid pump pressure. I do believe the concerns are related but wanted to see if there are any other posts of the original concern I posted to see if they may be separate issues.

the most part a battery disconnect is not going to remove any information stored in the computer, only clears volatile RAM. Whatever is causing this has to do with the vehicle thinking it wants an event to happen and commits to that event then it changes its mind. with no codes it is indicating that the system is working within acceptable working parameters but what is happening with the gas engine start stop and the electrical motor start stop does not seem to be in normal parameters based off the last 3 years of driving this vehicle.

My Powerboost chucked an auxiliary transmission pump although took the whole transmission with it. As soon as my "STOP SAFELY NOW" warning came on in 20 seconds the truck bricked, this 23 has left me stranded twice, it's gone forever as of today.

 

[HammaMan]

I kind of wondered about that, I used to be a ford mechanic for about 10 years till I got my current job so I'm not unfamiliar with working on them and I was always pretty good and finding easier ways to go about doing things without damaging anything but the problem still remains that the aux fluid pump has a QR code on it that needs to be scanned and then the number needs to be put into the PCM programing before it can be driven so regardless, I have to get my dealer to do it as I don't really have access to the FDRS to use it for a weekend job in the driveway.

Hrm, are the 2 additional solenoids part of the pump? You can enter that type of data w/ forscan.

 

[danker]

Hrm, are the 2 additional solenoids part of the pump? You can enter that type of data w/ forscan.

just following the ford WSM as far as instructions go. forscan might work IF it has that capability but I still have the same issue... no real weekend access to a computer with FDRS or forscan loaded on it. I'm definitely capable and have had an extensive amount of ford in school training but never got the chance to do any in depth transmission, let alone hybrid trans. training. I was the diesel tech for 10 years with ford. left ford at the tail end of 21.

 

[dochawk]

Railroad ties cut down to 1' long works great too, set the ebrake.

somehow, I keep feeling like I should be sending @HammaMan a tuition check . . .

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