Front differential Drain Plug?

[imnuts]

Purple Cranium makes one, but pulling everything just to get that is probably overkill. That said, IF you installed a front Raptor Torsen, the drain plug diff cover is a must. I believe that many of the engineers who design these trucks have never worked on a vehicle. An engineer who has spent time turning wrenches is a very different animal than one who never has. The instinct for "that thing is gonna snap in half" or "if you don't lubricate that better, it's gonna make engine glitter" is something that you refine and prove out with math, NOT something that can be REPLACED BY MATH. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, or in this case simple ignorance.

The first thing that engineers at any automotive firm should do is go change oil and spark plugs with the grease monkeys at some local dealership. I.e. NOT a job where you pull the whole engine out/cab off, but one where you have to reach into a crevice that SOMEONE DESIGNED and skin your knuckles while reaching a bolt with an extension and U-joint on your socket. Make them replace some differential fluid on a diff with no drain plug; see how long it takes for them to figure out that $0.30 worth of machine time and $1.50 worth of drain plug makes life a lot easier.

Just because it isn't easily serviceable or replaceable doesn't mean the engineers didn't want to make it that way. Odds are that an accountant killed it. That added $2 to parts is HUGE when you consider the number of F-150s produced. You're also adding a new leak, failure, and potential weak point to the cover that isn't there otherwise.

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[fordtruckman2003]

Just because it isn't easily serviceable or replaceable doesn't mean the engineers didn't want to make it that way. Odds are that an accountant killed it. That added $2 to parts is HUGE when you consider the number of F-150s produced. You're also adding a new leak, failure, and potential weak point to the cover that isn't there otherwise.

I wouldn't give engineers too much credit... Look at the oil filter placement on 3.5 motors.

 

[amschind]

Just because it isn't easily serviceable or replaceable doesn't mean the engineers didn't want to make it that way. Odds are that an accountant killed it. That added $2 to parts is HUGE when you consider the number of F-150s produced. You're also adding a new leak, failure, and potential weak point to the cover that isn't there otherwise.

I completely understand, and I'll use this as an opportunity to reiterate a point that I keep making: we will only get as much as we demand. Those same accountants would love to sell us a skateboard with a 12V and 2kW traction motor duct taped to it IF we were willing to pay $70k for it.

As for a the leak/failure point argument, I have to disagree. If that were the priority, then the 10R80 wouldn't have a plastic oil pan right next to the exhaust pipe and the 2.7 wouldn't have a plastic 1/2 turn drain plug. Ford probably also wouldn't sell the Ford Performance rear diff cover that goes on the Raptor with not one, but THREE holes (drain, normal fill, high fill). IMHO, you were on the right track with the cost savings argument, but the "likely to fail" idea doesn't hold water versus other decisions made on the same truck.

My dad was a mech-E at a chemical plant for 35 years, and instilled in me that you must never underestimate the creativity or destructive potential of maintenance personnel OR corporate accountants.

 

[amschind]

I wouldn't give engineers too much credit... Look at the oil filter placement on 3.5 motors.

I actually don't criticize the oil filter placement any more. It's a good location design wise, and it's actually not hard to reach once you figure it out. My issue is that when techs apply He-Man torque to it, the location makes it nearly impossible to remove. It can still be a problem, but I have to lay that at the feet of maintenance practices/training vs design; locating an oil filter so that it's easy to get big channel locks on it when techs mess up seems like "replacing one problem with a different problem".

 

[TheGoatman]

Any luck getting the diff cover off?

It’s possible to do a fluid change.
You cannot get the cover off.
you can move the cover enough to clean the surfaces, Then get the rtv on. It’s miserable AF. I would strongly consider sucking it out through a tube.

 

[Johnny Tremor]

I just changed my front diff fluid using the suction method. That was a real treat. It was a lot harder than the FordTechMakuloco video makes it sound. In 2WD you can spin the drive shaft to move the ring gear if a bolt is in the way to help get the hose in. But using the smallest hose I could find, I still could not get to the bottom of the differential. And using the smallest hose the lube comes out real slow. After an hour of sucking and moving the hose around, I was only able to get about a quart of lube in, so I probably only changed half the capacity. I have a Tremor with the front Torsen differential--not sure if the Torsen carrier makes makes the suction process more difficult? What's even more frustrating, the diff housing looks like it has a boss already on it meant for a drain plug just waiting to be drilled and tapped.

Looking at the diff cover it seems like I could "probably" get it off with the hardest part being getting to the top bolts and cleaning the top of the mating surface. Maybe the front diff is mounted a bit lower to account for the factory Tremor lift. Attached pics--sorry they are crappy. Maybe at the 60K mark or so I'll try to change the cover to one with a drain plug. I'm pretty tired of messing with the front differential for now.

I wanted to change the front diff fluid now so I would not have to pull the Raptor transmission skid plate I installed right after fluid swap. Not sure why Ford thought the Tremor--marketed as an offroad model--didn't deserve a skid plate to protect the plastic transmission pan. Probably the same engineer who decided the front diff did not need a drain plug. This is the first Ford I have owned, and I'm not impressed with Ford's engineering. It really feels like Ford treats the F150 like an entry level sedan that will always be serviced at the dealership and sold based on image, not actual function. Ford tries to sell models based on the legacy of F150 reliability and F150 toughness and off road ability--Raptor, Tremor, FX4. But doesn't even give most of them a real 4WD transfer case, and instead relies on clutch plates, and most have a fiber splash guard to protect the transmission. Ford was dealing with decades of IWE issues from prior generations of F150s only to come up with new version that immediately has issues with noise and grinding. I've owned a number of Toyota/Lexus cars and SUV, and have never been as underwhelmed as I have been with the F150. On both the Toyota and Lexus SUVs that I owned, the transfer case had a locking Torsen differential--a much more elegant solution than adding clutch plates. I expect a clutch plate transfer case on a Subaru, not an F150.

To be fair, I like the power of the EB 3.5 and Forscan is pretty cool for customization not possible with most other brands. I have mixed feeling about the nut clips Ford seems to use on everything under the vehicle. Kinda sloppy but ease to replace if you strip one. But in the end, given the Ford engineering that I have seen, I'm scared of the Ford engineering that I cannot see. I wish the new gen of Toyota Tundra had been available when I bought my Tremor.

 

[TheGoatman]

Yeah it’s pretty amazing they did this to us. Let me say it was so much fun doing the reach around getting to the top bolts through the front by the oil filter.

Our diffs are mounted similarly and I would not count on being able to get the cover out. It’s not even close. The ring gear sticks out a lot. Once you pop the cover off, no turning back. Lol

Like you’re thinking, I’m likely not done here. if I get a leak I’m dropping the diff and installing the oem raptor r cover. In the other thread they said $165. Aluminum and has a drain.

 

[TheGoatman]

I might be through the woods. Went for 150 mile drive. Looks dry.

 

[amschind]

I just changed my front diff fluid using the suction method. That was a real treat. It was a lot harder than the FordTechMakuloco video makes it sound. In 2WD you can spin the drive shaft to move the ring gear if a bolt is in the way to help get the hose in. But using the smallest hose I could find, I still could not get to the bottom of the differential. And using the smallest hose the lube comes out real slow. After an hour of sucking and moving the hose around, I was only able to get about a quart of lube in, so I probably only changed half the capacity. I have a Tremor with the front Torsen differential--not sure if the Torsen carrier makes makes the suction process more difficult? What's even more frustrating, the diff housing looks like it has a boss already on it meant for a drain plug just waiting to be drilled and tapped.

Looking at the diff cover it seems like I could "probably" get it off with the hardest part being getting to the top bolts and cleaning the top of the mating surface. Maybe the front diff is mounted a bit lower to account for the factory Tremor lift. Attached pics--sorry they are crappy. Maybe at the 60K mark or so I'll try to change the cover to one with a drain plug. I'm pretty tired of messing with the front differential for now.

I wanted to change the front diff fluid now so I would not have to pull the Raptor transmission skid plate I installed right after fluid swap. Not sure why Ford thought the Tremor--marketed as an offroad model--didn't deserve a skid plate to protect the plastic transmission pan. Probably the same engineer who decided the front diff did not need a drain plug. This is the first Ford I have owned, and I'm not impressed with Ford's engineering. It really feels like Ford treats the F150 like an entry level sedan that will always be serviced at the dealership and sold based on image, not actual function. Ford tries to sell models based on the legacy of F150 reliability and F150 toughness and off road ability--Raptor, Tremor, FX4. But doesn't even give most of them a real 4WD transfer case, and instead relies on clutch plates, and most have a fiber splash guard to protect the transmission. Ford was dealing with decades of IWE issues from prior generations of F150s only to come up with new version that immediately has issues with noise and grinding. I've owned a number of Toyota/Lexus cars and SUV, and have never been as underwhelmed as I have been with the F150. On both the Toyota and Lexus SUVs that I owned, the transfer case had a locking Torsen differential--a much more elegant solution than adding clutch plates. I expect a clutch plate transfer case on a Subaru, not an F150.

To be fair, I like the power of the EB 3.5 and Forscan is pretty cool for customization not possible with most other brands. I have mixed feeling about the nut clips Ford seems to use on everything under the vehicle. Kinda sloppy but ease to replace if you strip one. But in the end, given the Ford engineering that I have seen, I'm scared of the Ford engineering that I cannot see. I wish the new gen of Toyota Tundra had been available when I bought my Tremor.

There are a few solutions, but ALL of them should've been applied at the factory. PPE makes an aluminum transmission pan, but you will have to drop the driver's side exhaust pipe to fit it. This in turn requires a deeper skid plate. If you get something like a Talons Garage skid plate package, you will have the space to drop the exhaust pipe and then add the PPE pan. The PPE pans also have a boss for a transmission dipstick like the B&M.

As for the transfer case, there are TWO good solutions which Ford does an awful jjob of marketing. The Low tier transfer case, or ESOF (electronic shift on the fly) is a standard locking chain driven case. The Raptor transfer case has this functionality plus 4A, and is referred to around here as a Hi-Lock. The mid-tier transfer case, or "4A" is a clutch plate design and is standard on the Lariat through the Platinum (I have seen debate if the Limited gets the Raptor Hi-Lock or the 4A case). Therefore, the solution comes down to 1) do you need 4A and 2) do you need a locking transfer case? If you only really need 4A to avoid slipping in snow on paved surfaces, then the 4A case is perfect. If you don't need 4A, then the base level ESOF transfer case is best (I chose this option as I have no need for 4A). If you need 4A AND a locking transfer case, then your options are to get a Raptor OR add a Hi-Lock case to the truck (which several folks on here have done, with the rear driveshaft and a bit of module programming being the only tricky parts).

The Raptor parts that do the most good for most of us (unless you need 4A ,then see above) are the rear differential cover (which has drain and fill plugs), the front Torsen and the overhead switches. Of those only the Torsen is expensive to add, and even then is mostly labor as the parts are only a diff rebuild kit a $650 differential and a $100 cover. I think that this is what led a lot of folks, myself included, to the XLT 302A and then supply your own upgrades pathway. My big hangups vs the Lariat were the lack of vented seats and a heated wheel, and those are relatively simple options to add now (my next project is finishing the wiring for the heated wheel and seats; vented Lariats seats with blown airbags can actually be a great deal because you can get fresh airbags pretty cheap AND then upgrade the destroyed leather on the seats with Leatherseats.com/Katzkin leather that's nicer than factory). I realize that may not be super helpful for you, but the gist is that getting a lower trim truck and then upgrading the creature comforts that you need/want is currently an optimal solution. If money is no object then spend $200k to stuff a tiny generator into a Lightning's Frunk and have the best F150 ever made, but I am assuming some financial constraints.

 

[Ericjvolker]

Someone posted in past with a high lift kit they were able to use for Ford Performance 8.8 cover on the front. Without that I don't think there is enough room for many aftermarket 8.8 covers.

I'm still looking for a cover with drain plug to fit the "super" 8.8 rear I have.

I'm not %100 positive, but I'm pretty sure I saw 8.8 differential covers on ford performance website.

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