F-150 vs. new Tundra

[PPK]

I have owned 5 Toyota 4WD trucks and driven each more than 170,000 miles on and off the road and never had a mechanical failure of any kind with any of them. When I sold each of these trucks everything worked perfectly and there was no play in the transmission gearbox or in the steering. I cannot say that about other vehcles from GM, Dodge, Chevy, or Ford that I have owned.

There is a club of sorts for owners of Toyotas with more than 300,000 miles on the original engine and this started well before the switch to unleaded gas that prolonged engine life.

There is a reason why in Africa and South America the Toyota Landcruisers are the most popular vehicles and even ones with more than 1 million miles on the odometer sell quickly on the used market.

i owned one tacoma. lost 5sp in the tranny and lost the rear ring gear. no more toyotas.. on the fifth gear jumping out... when i made a cert letter to toyota customer service on the tranny - they had two weeks of letters in the basement and it would be a while before they would get back to me...

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[Pedaldude]

I recall a long time ago, a dude was talking about the Porsche 935; which is a legendary late 70’s, early 80’s race car that dominated the field.

It was a result of pouring over the rule books and finding every single benefit and loophole that would allow for the car to be faster.

The most famous part of the lore was that BMW had been bitching about how Porsche had an unfair advantage with the older rules and that with the engine in the back, they had more freedom with what they could do with their exhausts but with the engine up front BMW had to run their exhaust all the way to the back of the car. The racing regulations were changed, so that BMW could run side pipes in place of their rocker panels but it also meant that Porsche could cut off the entire bottom of their 930 turbo, based on the 911, below the doors. So they did and were able to run their car 4” closer to the ground. The shift rod that normally ran through a tunnel in the center of the monocoque frame was moved above it and the transaxle was flipped upside down in order to raise the engine up for ground clearance because the car was so low after, it would have been scraping on the ground. Aerodynamics at high speeds were adjusted with a new rear window at a shallower angle. The rule books were explicit about the rear window remaining in its stock position; so the new plexiglass window was placed above the original one!

Anyway, I forget if it was a driver or an engineer (it could have been Bob Wollek) but the dude said that the 935 was like an old pencil that had been sharpened so much that there was nothing left.

This is where we are today, only instead of racing regulations. The various government agencies have been writing the regulations, and they know even less about cars than the committees of the FIA and SCCA, USAC, or NASCAR did during the 1970’s.

Because of the EPA CAFE standards and other insidious government mandates we have been traveling down a long road paved with unintended consequences. Some of those unintended consequences have resulted in SUVs and crew cab pickup trucks becoming so prevalent today because the manufacturers have followed consumer demand and provided large, roomy and safe vehicles with good performance while the government has been trying to force people into buying economical shit boxes. Adapting, the government has been removing exemptions and tightening loopholes because they don’t last long when everyone uses them. So now we are in aluminum bodied trucks with mass produced engines that are essentially as good as or even better than Formula One and Indy Car engines of just a few decades ago. A stock Honda Civic would probably lap a Ferrari Testarossa at most race tracks!

Reliability and longevity are suffering and while the original intention was to get an incremental improvement in fuel efficiency on an arbitrary road test outlined in the EPA drive cycle; it doesn’t reflect modern real world driving conditions and it isn’t aligned with the original intention of the regulations of improving the environmental impact of the automobile. I feel 2006 was the high point for reliability and efficiency and after that we’ve been going downhill. It’s not just Toyota that has suffered with their reputation but Honda has gone from the top three in reliability to like number 15 or something terrible like that because there’s no way to make a car that can be reliable and also meet the standards that have been applied.

The problem is that by focusing on just one aspect of the automotive experience; the performance during the arbitrary driving cycle test, the regulating bodies have lost touch of the fact that the automobile is a not just some refractory object but a complex system of parts that degrades, requires maintenance and gets crashed into shit or that individual owners have different budgets and that maintenance and technicians are a finite resource as well. So by building these systems that are marvels of engineering, we’re also pushing the limits of that engineering and it’s not good for the environment at all.

One of the things presumptuous car salesmen would say while I was shopping for a new truck five years ago was point to my ‘06 Silverado and it’s faded paint that was baked by the AZ sun and worn down from the previous owner’s unlimited membership to a machine car wash that he would use every other day and say “I bet it drives much better than that old thing.” To where I would have to tell them that it really doesn’t and that my then nearly fifteen year old truck only had 80K miles and that I changed out any wear components before I noticed any problems and when I put it up for sale, I included more pictures of underneath the truck and the engine compartment than its exterior. Sadly however, most people shopping for new vehicles are impressed with the ride quality of new cars because they failed to perform some of the most basic maintenance tasks on their old vehicles. Stuff like shock absorbers, bushings, and other wear items that not only dramatically impact your driving experience but can even hurt braking performance and even start damaging things like motor mounts and wheel bearings.

To help create a better system, the life cycle costs, both financially and for the use of fossil fuels or other alternative sources of energy need to be analyzed. Cradle to grave, including the costs of towing a broken car to the dealership, or shipping by freight a crate engine and the fuel used by the service tech to drive his 1999 Chevy Suburban or 2005 Sequoia or even a 1997 VW diesel on its third engine to the Toyota dealership to swap the out the twin turbo Tundra mill. The marginal increase in MPG just doesn’t add up and the recycling costs of 100,000 engines or crushing a car built in 2016 because it costs more to fix than it’s worth because the level of technology is so advanced that it’s just not feasible without resorting to heroic measures.

They also need to bring back 5MPH bumpers and other improvements to reduce insurance costs for vehicles because it’s getting ridiculous. Even though cars/trucks are getting more expensive, people aren’t driving more carefully! If anything it’s worse nowadays!!

 

[Samson16]

I have owned 5 Toyota 4WD trucks and driven each more than 170,000 miles on and off the road and never had a mechanical failure of any kind with any of them. When I sold each of these trucks everything worked perfectly and there was no play in the transmission gearbox or in the steering. I cannot say that about other vehcles from GM, Dodge, Chevy, or Ford that I have owned.

There is a club of sorts for owners of Toyotas with more than 300,000 miles on the original engine and this started well before the switch to unleaded gas that prolonged engine life.

There is a reason why in Africa and South America the Toyota Landcruisers are the most popular vehicles and even ones with more than 1 million miles on the odometer sell quickly on the used market.

Well if you had bought a Tundra lately your 6th Toyota might have been a spun bearing POS.

The fact that you purchase anything besides Toyota after that sycophantic sermon is curious. I do hope your wiper motor recall issue was finally resolved though. Better safe than sorry am I right?

 

[Snakebitten]

Ironically, Consumer Reports did me a huge favor a couple of years ago.

While I will answer almost any question anyone would ask about my truck, especially those that are spawned from genuine curiosity,...... As soon as I even sense that I'm getting drawn into a Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Toyota reliability pizzing match, I immediately surrender and openly declare that I drive The least reliable pickup truck sold in America. ?

Takes the fizz right out of the challenger.

 

[Samson16]

Ironically, Consumer Reports did me a huge favor a couple of years ago.

While I will answer almost any question anyone would ask about my truck, especially those that are spawned from genuine curiosity,...... As soon as I even sense that I'm getting drawn into a Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Toyota reliability pizzing match, I immediately surrender and openly declare that I drive The least reliable pickup truck sold in America. ?

Takes the fizz right out of the challenger.

I’m trying Master Yoda but I sometimes fall short ?

 

[Snakebitten]

I’m trying Master Yoda but I sometimes fall short ?

I don't think you understand.
I only get to take that approach, and feel good about, because I know I can count on YOU to get em FOR me. ?

 

[Calson]

i owned one tacoma. lost 5sp in the tranny and lost the rear ring gear. no more toyotas.. on the fifth gear jumping out... when i made a cert letter to toyota customer service on the tranny - they had two weeks of letters in the basement and it would be a while before they would get back to me...

That is one vehicle with a problem with the transmission which is hardly relevant. I have owned 5 Toyota pickups as well as ones from Willys, Dodge, and Chevy, and one Ford full size Bronco with the terrible I-beam front suspension.

Spend 5 minutes on any Toyota truck website and you will quickly learn that they are loyal due entirely to vehicle reliability and low cost of ownership. I have not found anything similar on the Chevy and Ram and Ford owner forums.

 

[astro_fusion]

That is one vehicle with a problem with the transmission which is hardly relevant. I have owned 5 Toyota pickups as well as ones from Willys, Dodge, and Chevy, and one Ford full size Bronco with the terrible I-beam front suspension.

Spend 5 minutes on any Toyota truck website and you will quickly learn that they are loyal due entirely to vehicle reliability and low cost of ownership. I have not found anything similar on the Chevy and Ram and Ford owner forums.

Spend 5 minutes out in the dirt with any of those trucks and you'll be on a strap broken heading back to camp, probably pulled in by one of those shitty I-beam Fords! I've put dozens on trailers in my life with mine. Toyota's hold up ok on the street. Once you need to use them or want to have fun they cost you. #tallcamry

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm doubting his truck is going to see much off-roading. I base that on it doesn't even see rain. ?

But I think I will mosey on over to the Tundra Forums and see what the loyalists have to say. Except wait a second. Tundra loyalist don't really purchase the current Gen Tundra, do they?

And he didn't either. ?

 

[HammaMan]

I'm doubting his truck is going to see much off-roading. I base that on it doesn't even see rain. ?

I'd love to send CA some of my rain. Between rain and sun the grass needs cut every 3 days right now. NUTS!

 

[Jersey devil]

I'd love to send CA some of my rain. Between rain and sun the grass needs cut every 3 days right now. NUTS!

It makes up for last month when we didn't get any rain. Seems like it's feast or famine here (NE Ga).

 

[Calson]

Spend 5 minutes out in the dirt with any of those trucks and you'll be on a strap broken heading back to camp, probably pulled in by one of those shitty I-beam Fords! I've put dozens on trailers in my life with mine. Toyota's hold up ok on the street. Once you need to use them or want to have fun they cost you. #tallcamry

My 5 Toyota 4WD trucks were driven everywhere others were going with their CJ5 and CJ7 Jeeps. The Toyotas are the only trucks to successfully navigate the rubicon trail.

I started driving and working on 4WD vehicles with a 1952, 1954, and 1956 Willys, a 1968 Dodge powerwagen, a full size Bronco with the i-beam front suspension, Chevy Tahoe, Chevy Blazer, Chevy 2500 Duramax, and now the F-150 truck. When one actually gets their hands dirty doing repairs with their backs on the ground they get a very different perspective than the person who only drives the vehicle and mostly to commute or buy groceries.

My Bronco needed its front end rebuilt after less than 15,000 miles as it was actually used in the backcountry of Idaho. Lots of companies starting providing rebuild kits for the Ford front end that were supposed to last longer than the OEM factory parts.

The first good IFS I encountered was on the 1988 Toyota and again with the 2011 Chevy 2500. If one has spent a lot of time driving vehicles with solid front axles they get a great deal of pleasure from the much less harsh ride of a vehicle with IFS.

I am referring to my own hands on owning, repairing, and driving of a range of vehicles and not what I have heard or read third or forth or fifth hand.

 

[BMCGC]

 

[Deleted member 11970]

Talk me off the ledge! Looking at a 2025 Tundra limited trd off-road 4x4 that has an msrp of $66k but they’re discounting it down to $60k. They also have 10 years of free oil changes as well. What do you think? I still worry about these new tundra engines and I feel more comfortable with the 3.5 EB since it’s been around for a while.

 

[Jasco]

Hi all, I’m new here. I just bought a gently used 22’ Powerboost with 19k miles. I came from a 2023 Tundra TRD off road. They all have their issues. If you look deep enough even the last gen Tundras have issues and they ride like crap. I’m loving my Powerboost and plan to get an extended warranty through Granger. One thing I’ll note is the Tundra forums actually have legit Toyota engineers that monitor the sites and will help answer questions or assist with Dealer issues. These guys were not “Official” as in “Hey, I work for Toyota” but just guys that live in the Plano Texas area and worked at Toyota corporate HQ. I had an issue with my Sirius radio and I PM’d one of them. He took a test truck out the next day and got back to me with a potential fix. If Ford could give this kind of 1:1 help and have engineers that were willing to assist in this manner to document quality issues. That would be a game changer. Anyway, glad to be here. This Lariat Powerboost is WAY nicer than my Tundra was

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