Does anyone here have direct experience with a hellion turbo setup on an f150?

[v8440]

Hi all,

I'm trying to get an idea of where I might eventually want to go with forced induction on my soon-to-be-here '24 rcsb 4x4. I like the whipple setup and I like the hellion sleeper setup (with the turbos under the truck). I'm very comfortable with turbocharging, I've had numerous turbocharged vehicles. Particularly nice is the ability to vary boost on the fly from the driver's seat. I'm open to hearing about experiences with and comparisons between a whipple setup and a hellion setup.

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[Fuelin_Around]

You won't be changing the boost much on a 2024. To my knowledge, most of the turbo 24s are limited to 4-6 psi of boost. Noooooooo tuning. Womp womp.

 

[v8440]

Huh, I didn't know that. Hopefully that won't be the case forever.

 

[yc5ac]

Huh, I didn't know that. Hopefully that won't be the case forever.

Check out the HPtuner forums, guys swap the 24' PCM with the 23' PCM for tuning.

 

[HammaMan]

I'd think there should be a product capable of at least adding fuel based on boost/RPM levels. There should be some aftermarket slave ECUs capable of man-in-the-middle spoofing/controlling certain variables. I'm not subject to such limitations so I haven't looked into it. I know w/ my 08 tundra on launch the only way to 'tune' it was a slave ECU that connected in line with the factory ecu to do just that, and that was nearly 2 decades ago.

Check out the HPtuner forums, guys swap the 24' PCM with the 23' PCM for tuning.

Curious how this is working with the encryption that's showed up on the 24s. The turbo'd 24 I saw had a slave ECU and its own gauge cluster.

 

[Fuelin_Around]

Check out the HPtuner forums, guys swap the 24' PCM with the 23' PCM for tuning.

Can you please show were this has been done successfully?


This is from a facebook post by Ken Osborne from OZ Tuning 3 months ago regarding this very subject.

" Let’s clarify this so everyone can leave this alone finally. There is no custom tuning for 2024 F150’s, period. I am not at liberty to discuss everything that is going on behind the scenes with Dorian’s truck, and neither is he. What I came say is that we have tested many things, including using a 2023 PCM and, currently, there is no viable solution for tuning these trucks. What has been done so far with Dorian’s truck is not something that can be done and sold as a usable service or product. Dorian is making content, because that’s his job. He’s spending tons of time and money and experimenting and those of us involved know that. For him it’s money well spent because it generates content. For guys like myself that make our living by tuning vehicles, there’s nothing so far that offers any sort of viable option for tuning. So, take it for what it is, content and entertainment. Should a viable tuning solution come out of all of this experimenting, it won’t be kept a secret and anyone that wants to pay for the service will be able to. Until that happens, there’s no need to blow up social media or put on your tin foil hats and make up some crazy conspiracy theories. "

 

[HammaMan]

Yeah, I've played with seeing what happens when a module doesn't have its encryption, it doesn't talk to those that do. Didn't think the 23 PCM was a viable solution, but from the vids it's clear they have a slave present.

 

[Fuelin_Around]

Yeah, I've played with seeing what happens when a module doesn't have its encryption, it doesn't talk to those that do. Didn't think the 23 PCM was a viable solution, but from the vids it's clear they have a slave present.

Are you talking about the turbo 24 with the Fueltech stand alone?

 

[HammaMan]

Are you talking about the turbo 24 with the Fueltech stand alone?

To get the other systems like ABS and PSCM to work properly the primary PCM is still in the vehicle as those systems are encrypted. While it is on its own a standalone ECU, to let the rest of the truck work it requires quite a bit of spoofing to allow those systems to work properly which requires the factory PCM to be present. It's not operating as a standalone component for this application.

 

[v8440]

I can only imagine the amount of crap required to get the rest of the truck to play nice with something that's not even a ford product running the drivetrain. In fact, if I was asked before it was done I'd have said it's probably impossible.

 

[HammaMan]

I can only imagine the amount of crap required to get the rest of the truck to play nice with something that's not even a ford product running the drivetrain. In fact, if I was asked before it was done I'd have said it's probably impossible.

Nothing is impossible. While it's certainly more complex today, the amount of computing power you can get for just a few $ makes it very easy. Even a basic ESP32 device has enough power to feed all of the variables to a PCM to 'run' a virtual engine purely in software. This is open source software available on github for free. Once you're feeding the PCM a virtual engine simulator, you're free to control the engine with whatever ECU you want and the rest of the vehicle is none the wiser.

 

[v8440]

I was more thinking of how to integrate that non-ford engine management system into an encrypted ford system which the aftermarket has not cracked yet. Processing power is fine and dandy, but if two systems that need to communicate can't, you have problems. Obviously they figured something out though, it works.

 

[HammaMan]

I think you're misunderstanding. The PCM itself isn't connected to an actual engine. It's connected up to a small computer that's pretending to be the engine. The PCM for all intents and purposes is driving an engine that's behaving precisely as it believes it should (this is also how PCMs are tested in the first place at the manufacturer). You feed the requisite amount of signals to the external ECU from the primary to get it to start/stop/accelerate just as it should keeping just about every factory operation in place.

The time and money come into place in applying the principal in reality. How many true sensors can you feed the computer vs how many have to be virtualized? Does the trans need an external controller or can the PCM be fooled enough to control it properly retaining factory shifter, etc? Does the torque sensor need a spoofed signal, etc...

 

[v8440]

You're right, I was misunderstanding that part. Makes sense in general now.

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