Cummins fined $1 Billion, Ram recalls 1M trucks [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[SilverPigeon]

@powerboatr: Robert, this is the most accurate info I could find:

"The complaint alleges that the companies violated the Clean Air Act by selling heavy duty diesel engines equipped with “defeat devices” -- software that alters an engine’s pollution control equipment under highway driving conditions. The defeat devices allow engines to meet EPA emission standards during testing but disable the emission control system during normal highway driving."

Also in the same news release: "...The settlement is expected to prevent 75 million tons of nitrogen oxide (NOx) air pollution over the next 27 years; 75 million is more than the total U.S. NOx emissions for three years..."

Unless the EPA is in an alternate universe, they can only mean: "...In addition, EPA estimates that the companies will spend collectively more than $850 million to introduce cleaner new engines, rebuild older engines to cleaner levels, recall pickup trucks that have defeat devices installed and conduct new emissions testing..."

https://www.epa.gov/archive/epapage...eleases/93e9e651adeed6b7852566a60069ad2e.html

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[JJSnell]

So I'm confused a little. Everyone always says diesels burn cleaner than normal gas automobiles so why do we have to put in an additive to have cleaner air on the diesel?
I understand if you floor it you billow black smoke but even some are saying that that's still cleaner even though visually it doesn't look like it. I guess my question is why don't normal automobiles have some sort of additive to also have clean air?

 

[fordtruckman2003]

Diesel can be clean ish but making it so requires adding extra stuff onto engine and yes DEF is part of that. Diesel by design is more power efficient than gasoline with simple engine design so can get better fuel mileage. Very common in Europe to use diesel but less so in the US I think primary due to the dirty reputation. The kids doing the black soot thing wasting fuel don't contribute positive light to diesel looking clean.

 

[Buyer2021]

Everyone always says diesels burn cleaner than normal gas automobiles ...

"Everyone" ?

 

[JJSnell]

"Everyone" ?

Right?
Govt, diesel-heads, etc...
To me and my nekkid eye diesels have always run "dirtier".
Even those older VWs others are mentioning, I remember being behind those guys, choking', gaspin'. My tractor runs diesel and it billows smoke horribly.

 

[Buyer2021]

Right?
Govt, diesel-heads, etc...

Perhaps a more comprehensive understanding is in order .....

Diesel Or Petrol Engines: Which Pollutes More? A Complex Question

 

[9663mu]

My question is did Dodge know ? I would imagine so ?

 

[wessermgm]

Anyone who has driven a Ram 2500 and and F-250 both with diesels already knew this to a point. The Regen cycle in an F-250 Powerstroke just sucked the life out of the truck. With the Ram it was hardly noticeable. It always amazed me how the Cummins with a Turbo I-6 was right there with the Powerstroke and Duramax both with Turbo V-8s. I guess we know why.

 

[9663mu]

Anyone who has driven a Ram 2500 and and F-250 both with diesels already knew this to a point. The Regen cycle in an F-250 Powerstroke just sucked the life out of the truck. With the Ram it was hardly noticeable. It always amazed me how the Cummins with a Turbo I-6 was right there with the Powerstroke and Duramax both with Turbo V-8s. I guess we know why.

Yep exactly cause they were cheating and lyin bastards. Yes the EPA is crazy but it’s same rules for eveyone.

 

[NJC311]

The U.S. government can continue to try and limit emissions as much as they want but as long as India, the Middle East, and China continue blowing and going we are not preventing crap! Our government continues to let us suffer while others just go on with their lives. EVs are not the answer no matter how hard they push it down our throats. Man made chemicals and materials that are 10x worse for our planet just to say we are saving the Ozone is crap. High cost which ppl will struggle to afford to own a EV with life cycles that are barely 10yrs is a joke. Crushing the local mechanic that’s trying to make a living shows that our government valves pleasing cooperations over helping the average citizen. I’m not here to say that we shouldn’t strive for better alternatives like hydrogen fuel and algae based fuels. A combustion engine is still the better option than anything battery powered but of course that is my opinion. Merry Christmas!

 

[powerboatr]

Anyone who has driven a Ram 2500 and and F-250 both with diesels already knew this to a point. The Regen cycle in an F-250 Powerstroke just sucked the life out of the truck. With the Ram it was hardly noticeable. It always amazed me how the Cummins with a Turbo I-6 was right there with the Powerstroke and Duramax both with Turbo V-8s. I guess we know why.

i can say this from recent exp.
my 2021 f250 with 6.7 PSD was a beast 450 hp 1k tq
at highway speeds it generated enough heat to passive regen the particulate filter( by the way that means burn into fine pieces that stay in until DPF has to be cleaned or changed in roughly 200k miles)

if i drove short trips or under 65 the latent heat left over ( because ran so COLD 180 to 187 was norm)
it would do forced regens at about 500 miles and the only way i knew it was doing it, was a small tell tale on the fuel gauge and smell of more heat or watched the dpf gauge .


with all that said
methanol injection to lwr intake temps post turbo and post charge air cooler will also put a bit of steam in the exhaust stream that also keeps dpf CLEAN and no soot.
however its just one more thing to add to the engine
but they could do it and get rid of exhaust fluid .
mind you the methanol mix with water is CHEAP as in between 1.50 and 2 a gallon
most times you find it as less than a dollar at season change out as its windshield wiper fluid
the turkeys rolling coal are probably the most glaring example of why people hate diesels
black smoke is unburnt fuel..
i loved it in fact my 1992 7.3 idi with banks turbo NEVER rolled smoke
my 02 7.3 did if i selected the 80 hp mode and rolled the throttle

my 06 6.0 never rolled black smoke, even at 100 hp boost on the tuner, but i also ditched the egr crap

my 2008 ISC cummins 8.3 monster never ever ever rolls black smoke .

 

[9663mu]

The U.S. government can continue to try and limit emissions as much as they want but as long as India, the Middle East, and China continue blowing and going we are not preventing crap! Our government continues to let us suffer while others just go on with their lives. EVs are not the answer no matter how hard they push it down our throats. Man made chemicals and materials that are 10x worse for our planet just to say we are saving the Ozone is crap. High cost which ppl will struggle to afford to own a EV with life cycles that are barely 10yrs is a joke. Crushing the local mechanic that’s trying to make a living shows that our government valves pleasing cooperations over helping the average citizen. I’m not here to say that we shouldn’t strive for better alternatives like hydrogen fuel and algae based fuels. A combustion engine is still the better option than anything battery powered but of course that is my opinion. Merry Christmas!

You make great points , most are very valid. However this is not what the discussion/thread is about. Ram cheated while Ford and GM didn’t. Same test ,same everything and one person cheated. 933k engines were produced to to deceive. They sold something dishonest.

 

[BUDXR7]

Diesel can be clean ish but making it so requires adding extra stuff onto engine and yes DEF is part of that. Diesel by design is more power efficient than gasoline with simple engine design so can get better fuel mileage. Very common in Europe to use diesel but less so in the US I think primary due to the dirty reputation. The kids doing the black soot thing wasting fuel don't contribute positive light to diesel looking clean.

Design of the engine or the fuel? Diesel has a non trivial higher energy content;

Motor gasoline	1 gallon = 120,214 Btu
Diesel fuel	1 gallon = 137,381 Btu

The design of a diesel is enabled by the fuel. You can’t run gasoline on compression ignition. Any idiot who’s ever put gas in a diesel tank knows this.

 

[starock]

Does anyone know how they plan to actually fix this? If they had to cheat in the first place, it doesn’t seem like there is a possible way to fix it unless they greatly reduce power + possibly add some new stuff.

 

[Chili]

Does anyone know how they plan to actually fix this? If they had to cheat in the first place, it doesn’t seem like there is a possible way to fix it unless they greatly reduce power + possibly add some new stuff.

With the Ecodiesel, the updated tune greatly reduced power and throttle response.

This fine is the beginning. Lawsuits will be coming.

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