Buying a Used PB - WTH is Going On?

[wessermgm]

its bizarre how high the prices are used.

something that may factor is the now free PB option on 2024 F150s, a nicely equipped 2024 BAP Platinum PB is now around 75k (68k with dealer discounts) which I think is a price cut from the 2023

Definitely a price cut for PB equipped. I paid with discount $73k for my 22 Plat Eco missing massage seats and no moonroof. My Granger order for a 24 KR with PB, add massage chairs, add moonroof is $67,700.

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[precab]

If buying a used 22, best negotiation tool is to show them or the seller it is on the top ten LEAST reliable list in 2023. That should lower the price. I have a 22 with 1 recall and 2 warranty repairs on parts not the assembly. Great truck with an extended warranty. Truly delivers for towing, genny, MPG on the why under 70 is so impressive for a brick in the wind on top of great city MPG

 

[HammaMan]

If buying a used 22, best negotiation tool is to show them or the seller it is on the top ten LEAST reliable list in 2023.

The fact you're trying to buy it kinda flies into the face of the argument though.

"this is real piece of shit that I want to buy" ... just doesn't seem very effective.

 

[amschind]

Most Powerboost trucks are extremely reliable, as they should be. It's not really new hardware: 7 year old transmission and 2nd gen 3.5L are both heavily tweaked parts, with the control circuitry and electric motor being the only addition. There are some PBs with SOMETHING wrong and the dealers don't have the know-how to diagnose them. Therefore, your mission isn't to hold off the inevitable failure, it's to weed out the "nobody knows why but it's screwed" trucks.

 

[EricR]

FWIW, my local dealer here in the Boise area finally has new F150s on the lot. Some of these, a mix of 15 or so XLTs & Lariats, are $9,000+ off MSRP. About 1/3 of these 15 are Powerboosts.

1) This is a big change from the $2‐5,000 over MSRP of the last few years.

2) This has to impact used pricing soon. There is no longer any need to pay new MSRP for a used truck, if new ones are right on dealer lot.

 

[amschind]

FWIW, my local dealer here in the Boise area finally has new F150s on the lot. Some of these, a mix of 15 or so XLTs & Lariats, are $9,000+ off MSRP. About 1/3 of these 15 are Powerboosts.

1) This is a big change from the $2‐5,000 over MSRP of the last few years.

2) This has to impact used pricing soon. There is no longer any need to pay new MSRP for a used truck, if new ones are right on dealer lot.

Look at the interest rate and do the calculations. Loan calculators are free and easy to use and it'll help you save the most money when negotiating.

 

[EricR]

Look at the interest rate and do the calculations. Loan calculators are free and easy to use and it'll help you save the most money when negotiating.

Good input for those in buying mode!

We are quite happy with our 2021 Lariat PB. Thus not in the market for a vehicle.

Just passing on what I saw when wandering the dealer's lot.

 

[HammaMan]

Financing incentives can really add up! The difference between 2% and 7% is pretty much $7k

The current average rate for 'prime' credit scores (661-780) is just over 9%!!! This is how ugly that is

Take one of those 84 month loans at 9% -- crazy how fast it adds up

 

[trabo]

Out of fear of "getting a bad one", and/or taking an incredible depreciation hit, for the moment I'm thinking the smart move is to look for a '22 or used '23. However, some of the area dealers are smoking crack. Or worse. I've got one even listing a used '23 for over MSRP. Lots. SMH.

For your comment, here's what I'm thinking:

1) I can buy a new truck of my exact wishes at 10% off. Nobody consumer or dealer, should be paying that for a used one.
2) Residual value (value after depreciation) is well documented. Generally 49-50% at 5 years, 63-64% at 3 years, etc. Lets expand on the three year for a moment. If we can buy new at 10% off, then the remaining depreciation (46% - 10%) is distributed over 36 months. No way that's straight line, so lets call it 16% first year, 12% second, and 8% third. Maybe 7% the next, then 6, then.... This is going to be relatively close, if not generous.

So OK, 10% new, 16% additional first year. I'm thinking a one year of should be roughly (wholesale) 74% off MSRP. Dealer profit is expected but I'm seeing crazy asking prices. What am I missing? Are folks so desperate for a deal they're actually buying used at the crazy prices I'm seeing?

I think I disagree with the premise. I just sold a 2017 Tacoma with 125k miles for $28k cash, and I bought it for 51. Sure, Tacomas have great resale value but so do F-150s.

The reality is that dealerships are called stealerships for a reason. They took someone on their trade and are trying to get you to pay like-new price because it’s “hardly used” or “in great condition.” If you want to talk depreciation, consider what the IRS lets us write-off and go back to the dealer with that.

I just bought a new PB so I clearly don’t fear the things you do - though I have been scouring forums for weeks and learning about preventative actions - but I’d say buy the truck that YOU can break in properly, where you know how it was treated from day one. For all you know, that 15-20% off MSRP deal came from some chump who stood on the gas in sport mode as soon as he took it off the lot.

 

[dafish]

Without commenting on each post:

* Yes, I'll consider rates. I'll likely write a check, but I can always invest instead so...
* Granger, if new = Quite likely, if not a certainty.
* Depreciation? 50% over 5 years, and those are Fords own lease numbers. 37% over three, again Fords own. Yes, there have been very unusual exceptions, but not the historic norm.
* PB reliability? Yes, Its bad, but this is Fords fault. I'm sure we all understand the stockholder is Fords customer, we are just fuel for their engine. And unless people like me buy elsewhere their strategy remains the most profitable.
* Did I read PB is no longer available with trailer tow mirrors or max tow? Hm... That's a pretty telling state of affairs if true. Guess I need to check.
* Before you report MT is bad, it's less then 26 lbs and I would have valued the bigger rear brakes as well as the stronger axle. In fact, I'd be a RAS away from reasonably building a mild HDPP. Nor [per the stickers of course, but that doesn't keep me from safer things.

FWIW, I've been to several dealers w/used PB's in inventory. Asking to see their service history has been stunning. Oh. My. God. Those that have good ones are either not towing or they need to go buy a lottery ticket right now.

Why am I working so hard on this when I should walk away? I'm close to doing just that. That I'm historically a Ford truck guy makes it hard, and the damn 7.2KW inverter/generator is really attractive. Worse, unless I buy used I face a really big depreciation hit if I get it wrong. Which I'd rather not take.

My thanks for all your comments insights!

-d

 

[Ishkatan]

FWIW, my local dealer here in the Boise area finally has new F150s on the lot. Some of these, a mix of 15 or so XLTs & Lariats, are $9,000+ off MSRP. About 1/3 of these 15 are Powerboosts.

1) This is a big change from the $2‐5,000 over MSRP of the last few years.

2) This has to impact used pricing soon. There is no longer any need to pay new MSRP for a used truck, if new ones are right on dealer lot.

Same think in Maryland for some dealers. I suspect this is incentives from Ford, though the discount is greater at some dealers than others, ranging from $7K to $10K. Just beware. Many of these trucks are missing features. Specifically, nearly all Platinum trucks come without Multifunction seats, heated steering wheel and Active Park Assist 2.0. If I were buying a Platinum I would absolutely want those features.
I am waiting to see the 2024 Ford Ranger to see if my butt fits and if it is narrower than the F150. If I don't like it, then I may go for an F150 Hybrid, but then the Active Park Assist is a necessity with this huge truck in the suburbs of D.C. and other Eastern cities.

 

[dafish]

Yea, I said screw it an have a sale set on a new '23 KR that was close enough. I didn't get tow mirrors (drat), the long bad (darn), or the massaging seats (WTH Ford!), but I also got a stupid good price on it, so... Guess I'll just use by trailer for things that won't fit in the bed (first world problems, right?)

 

[gpbst3]

Diesel is going for almost $1 more a gallon which pretty much takes away any of your fuel savings not mention DEF fluid.

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