What grade fuel for PowerBoost?

[Lippy]

I'm going out to the barn and I'm going to quote what you said about me to everything from my chainsaw to my Porsche. "did Yaw hear that? I am Mechanically Sympathetic so yaw have no reason to give me any trouble" ?

All kidding aside, you are dead right because I didn't get it for a long time and blamed Yamaha or KTM or GM or....
Called a lot of things "junk" when it broke.

Didn’t mean to imply you aren’t, btw. ?

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[blkZ28spt]

Also, with regards to tuning, dyno tuning is great for numbers, but you also have to consider drivability. If the tuning gives you more HP & Torque, but you go from making that power at say 1000-2000 RPM now to 4000-5000 RPM, that isn't helpful to normal DD duty. There is more to consider when getting a tune than just the raw HP/Torque data and you should also look at where those are changing across the power band.

With the 3.5 Eco, tunes improve drivability. More low end. More mid range. More top end. More everything. Better shifting too, with less lugging the engine.

But, there won't be powerboost tunes for awhile, if ever.

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

With the 3.5 Eco, tunes improve drivability. More low end. More mid range. More top end. More everything. Better shifting too, with less lugging the engine.

But, there won't be powerboost tunes for awhile, if ever.

I’m hoping sooner than later. I can’t wait for a aviator electric plug in hybrid swap.

Once the lightning ships, there will be spare parts for the plug in portion

 

[UGADawg96]

So while you guys are measuring lightsabers.... If I just want to cruise the grocery store parking lot and occasionally tow 6000lbs, is running 87 fine or is 91/93 really needed when towing ?

 

[Snakebitten]

Lol
Truck runs fine on 87 because it is SMART about what it's drinking. But if you are going to put a 6000lb parachute on the back of it you could treat it to an energy drink while it works hard to serve you.

Ford even admits it's a nice thing to do.

 

[F-150 Prius]

The Hybrid system is something like 800-1200 lbs from what I can see

The Hybrid adds 564lbs (without the almost compulsory onboard pro power.)

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

So while you guys are measuring lightsabers.... If I just want to cruise the grocery store parking lot and occasionally tow 6000lbs, is running 87 fine or is 91/93 really needed when towing ?

Baaahahahahahaha

 

[F-150 Prius]

If I just want to cruise the grocery store parking lot and occasionally tow 6000lbs, is running 87 fine or is 91/93 really needed when towing ?

"Really needed" – no, but advisable "by the book" especially for harsh conditions (hills and hot weather.)

Google recommends this forum:

For all the back-and-forth, I don't think anyone is arguing that 91/93 won't help. I think we can agree that 91/93 will increase power and range, however little the increase and whatever the cost difference. YMMV. : )

 

[F-150 Prius]

I didn't look closely but we purchased a Powerboost for our aircraft cleaning crew and it IS considerably lighter than my Platinum based on the additional Cargo Capacity sticker on the door jamb. But I would be shocked to find that it is heavier than the Raptor.

It could very well be, but nowhere near 700lbs. Of course it also couldn't possibly "hook up" with those silly little base tires either.

That truck is an AMAZING value for its MSRP and the guys that are using it are SO proud of it that they won't let anyone sit on the cloth seats or get in with dirty shoes. It nice to see them appreciate what otherwise looks like an ordinary white fleet vehicle.

Raptor = PowerBoost + 223lbs (4x4)
PowerBoost 2x4 = PowerBoost 4x4 + 257lbs
PowerBoost = EcoBoost + 564lbs (4x2)

The XL 2x4 PowerBoost must feel like a rocket (if, as you say, you could ever get it to launch, but rolling in 2WD, my Platinum Prius will burnout with just brake pressure till the rears let go … childish, but a fun experiment and sympathetic to transmission not having to deal with a standing start launch.)

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

The Hybrid adds 564lbs (without the almost compulsory onboard pro power.)

Lol! I was questioning myself, and had already did all that same math and was about to post this…

I’m not sure why Ford shows 2 base curb weights for the powerboost and EB, but I went with the SCREW calculations since that’s what I have.

I came up with 569LBS and 545LBS for the two highlighted curb weights below.

Well I like the Powerboost even more now that I know it only adds 500-600 LBS to the platform. That means the hybrid system doesn’t really remove 1,500 lbs of towing capacity.

It only removes 600

The truck is 600 lbs heavier than an EB 4x4 that can tow 13,900 lbs, and it has all the same brakes etc.

Going by the old Diesal terminology, the Powerboost should be able to hold the road better, because it heavier.

 

[F-150 Prius]

I’m not sure why Ford shows 2 base curb weights for the powerboost and EB, but I went with the SCREW calculations since that’s what I have.

I came up with 569LBS and 545LBS for the two highlighted curb weights below.

Well I like the Powerboost even more now that I know it only adds 500-600 LBS to the platform. That means the hybrid system doesn’t really remove 1,500 lbs of towing capacity.

It only removes 600

The truck is 600 lbs heavier than an EB 4x4 that can tow 13,900 lbs, and it has all the same brakes etc.

Going by the old Diesal terminology, the Powerboost should be able to hold the road better, because it heavier.

That might be a typo on that page. On the XL page, since that was where I read the question, the two columns are 4x2 and 4x4.

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/models/f150-xl/

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

"Really needed" – no, but advisable "by the book" especially for harsh conditions (hills and hot weather.)

Google recommends this forum:

For all the back-and-forth, I don't think anyone is arguing that 91/93 won't help. I think we can agree that 91/93 will increase power and range, however little the increase and whatever the cost difference. YMMV. : )

I’m not arguing with people. I’m trying to help them understand that adding premium 93 to the EB or PB motors over 87, is not going to net you 10-20 extra horsepower as some here may think. Their claims are based upon a similar 87 - 93 comparison where the 450HP 3.5 HO motor was used and dynoed. Since the HO motor lost 20HP when using 87 octane, several feel that the normal EB truck will gain 20HP.

I have provided detailed dyno graphs where AAA performed an extremely scientific study of 87 vs 93 in a 2017 EB F150.

The three graph below are being reposted since I’m just trying to display facts and let others make up their mind on their own.

Static test 2000 and 4000 RPM 87 vs 93:
The initial portion of the test shows the same power levels. Then later power levels drop after engine, heads, turbo, air charge temp, gets hotter. Also keep in mind that with air moving over the truck, there would be additional inter cooling capacity, which is almost the same as running higher octane. 87 octane fuel cannot withstand the heat and combustion pressures associated with towing or racing, so in an extended pull with a heavy load, I feel 91 would be optimal. Unless I was going to the track or planning on racing someone, I wouldn’t put 93 in the trucks because there isn’t enough difference for there to be an actual pay off, unless you are towing. If this same test was performed with better air cooling, I feel the 87 power levels would have held in there longer.

Static RPM Load Test 2000 & 4000 rpm 87 vs 93:

93 Octane Dyno Pull:

87 Octane Dyno Pull:

Since the scale is odd, I have used a protractor to draw 5HP and 5TQ increments on the screen shots below to show how little of a change occurs on the EB motor

93 Octane Max & Low HP = 312 & 302 HP

87 Octane Max & Low HP = 307 & 293 HP

These above dyno graphs shows a 9HP (low difference) to 5HP (high difference) peak increase in horsepower using 93 octane.


93 Octane Max & Low TQ = 410 & 398 TQ

87 Octane Max & Low TQ = 415 & 403 HP

These above dyno graphs shows a drop of 5TQ (low difference) to 5TQ (high difference) decrease in peak torque using 93 octane.

My Conclusions using actual dyno graph data and being as scientific as is possible using this data source, I have determined the following.

Max HP 87 vs 93 in 2017 EB F150:
Increase in power ranging from 5-9HP when using 93 octane fuel.

Max TQ 87 vs 93 in 2017 EB F150:
Decrease in torque of 5TQ while using 93 octane fuel.

Like I have stated multiple times, I didn’t feel the factory OEM calibration gave you more than 5-10 HP, and these dyno graphs confirm this to be correct.

You could gain 9 HP, but you might lose 5 TQ, running premium in your EB or PB engine.

Rough math shows that running 93 octane in a Non Tuned EB F-150 is only using 9% - 5% of the 93 octane fuel’s actual potential in that specific engine. Above calculation is based on an EB gaining 100HP with custom tune.

So I have been ranting about this for day, just to try and open a few peoples eyes using actual dyno results.

1. If you gain 5-9HP and lose 5TQ, is it really worth it to keep using 93 octane, knowing the differences are so minimal in day to day usage?

2. Is 5-9 extra HP in certain optimal scenarios worth the extra 20 dollars per tank?

3. Is losing 5TQ going to be balanced out by the 5-9HP increase on 93?

4. If you’re towing heavy I would recommend better fuel octane 91-93 because there is a difference in sustained power output over extended time. This is due to heat soak causing pre-ignition and then the computer pulling timing/boost.

If conclusions 1, 2, 3, and 4 are “worth it to you” to spend 20 bucks more per tank, then do it!!!

 

[Snakebitten]

Again, whatever the explanation, my 2018 KingRanch CrewCab FX4 had a Cargo Capacity of ~1550lbs

My 2021 Powerboost Platinum FX4 has 1400lbs Cargo Capacity

I don't know how Ford did it, but I couldn't possibly get more Apples/Apples on trim and options, yet the Hybrid gear only stold about 150lbs of cargo from me.

 

[F-150 Prius]

[/QUOTE]

I’m trying to help them understand that adding premium 93 to the EB or PB motors over 87, is not going to net you 10-20 extra horsepower as some here may think. Their claims are based upon a similar 87 - 93 comparison where the 450HP 3.5 HO motor was used and dynoed.

My question would be head temps and EGTs or mpgs, not horses and torques.

Also, I'm new here and not trying to annoy anyone – I wasn't singling you out, nor would I say it's an argument – by Internet standards it's a talk over a cold beer and nobody has even been compared to Hitler … : )

For some, the price delta is negligible (that's me, paying about $0.20c more for 91 is affordable and I'm often in California paying $4+ for 91 "California water" to put in my other jalopies. I'm often in other states with the F-150 paying $2+ for 87 and laughing at the small receipt for the 500+ miles since the last fill-up. Compared to diesel and 14 mpg in my old tow vehicle, this Prius is practically running on the smell of an oily rag.

Anyway, I've had a lot of experience building and campaigning private race cars based on old Porsches and the tooner dood was very good at extracting safe, reliable power from 91 or blended to any rating up to 100 unleaded race gas. At the track, that could be $10/gal vs $5/gal at 5 mpg … for a turbo engine making 450hp instead of 360 (to the wheels.) If those numbers seem small, that's just the reality of older Porsches. Some of the newer cars we built (993 turbo thru 997.2 turbo) could boast 500 hp crank without internal upgrades. With better rods, etc. 700hp was "easy" and reliable.

So whatever real hp to the ground from the Prius, I know it's not going to add horses or torques under my right foot. The numbers you show are what I'd expect … "margin of error" … negligible. The same dyno pulls on a cold day with humidity, the results would shift.

I take it from Ford (and the Hybrid engine overheating youtube video by TFL) that the Hybrid at altitude-adjusted maximum loads will de-power when coolant temps hit some undisclosed number (which is much higher than I want the cylinder head temps in a truck I own.) I'll happily pour 93 in the tank just as a precaution for towing based on the owner's manual … and still watch the gauges conscientiously (which TFL did not …)

If someone wants to get head temps and exhaust gas temps and monitor the fuel trim and timing, then I'm curious to know if I can continue to buy 87 and just fill with 91 or 93 in anticipation of heavy towing and hills (which is why I bought the F-150.)

Out of curiosity, I will be pouring 91/93 on my next road trip, which is about 2000 miles, so a decent sample size for an apples:apples and I have all receipts, odo and instrument panel trip data for the vehicle thus far, which is just over 7000 miles after a 300 mile drive yesterday that returned a typical sub-20 mpg because I drive as fast as the fastest car that passes me, which yesterday, well, some of them were just plain anti-social fast, so I let them go … the farther away from me, the better … I settled in with a group pacing around 80-85 and politely passing slower drivers without tailgating or impatient lane changes (the two things that actually cause accidents.) So I'm okay with 18-20 mpg pushing a brick through air at 80mpg.

 

[Whiskey]

The dyno never lies and there ain’t a single sole on this forum gonna notice a 20hp gain by running 93 octane. You all funny thinking that 20 hp is worth the extra dollars in fuel. I bought the Hybrid to save on fuel cost, not go racing, yea the truck is bad ass but so is a whole lot of other trucks out there that are faster and quicker so don’t go think you got yourself a race truck. Ford tunes?? Hahahahaha,

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