Another truck ordered months ago won't be built

[Munch]

I spent 3 months (March, April, May) looking at southeastern dealer inventory for a F150 5.0 with the options I wanted.

I finally spoke to a dealer who informed me the CAFE standards would probably make it impossible to find such a truck. Most of the highly desirable trucks (non-hyrbrid or lower EPA gas estimates) go to customers and dealers who ordered at the beginning of the model year.

Memorial Day weekend, I bought a PowerBoost optioned exactly like I was looking for, minus the 5.0. I'm very satisfied with the truck so far. Albeit I have two recalls active for software upgrades.

The PB idles a little rougher than I would like, but that is just the way it is. The truck has plenty of power. I actually like the hybrid now. Kind of nice cruising around town on the electric motor at 35-40mph. Not uncommon to see a 20mpg/600+ mile range around town on a tank of gas. And that is after installing 18" Method wheels with BFG KO3 285s, BDS uca's and Fox leveling kit up front.

So far, I'm not missing the 5.0.

Sponsored

 

[Snakebitten]

Longetivity expectations are just as applicable for the Gen3 Ecoboost as it is for the Powerboost.
Both drivetrains were released simultaneously.

And honestly, as an F150 Ecoboost owner for nearly a decade, and following the 3.5 even longer (2011), this Gen3 version is ALREADY shaking out as the most solid yet. As it should be, of course.

Still, I don't fault anyone for wanting what they special ordered.

 

[Xman]

I had a 2024 3.5 EB Lariat on order like you had with no build date. My son had a 2023 PB and convinced me to look at the PB as he was getting 30 mpg going to work in rush hour traffic. The PB with a 7.2kw generator was the same cost as the EB I had on order so had the dealer switch to the PB. Got the build notice the next day.

I love my PB! I keep my trucks for 10-15 years and got the extended warranty (from Granger.com) as insurance. The hybrid portion of the PB has an 8-year warranty. I will say it again, I love my PB and use its electrical capabilities all the time. I loved my prior old Ram but the new ones are having major issues (avoid!). Chevy/GMC only come with a 24-gal gas tank which doesn't cut it for my driving out West and in the wilderness plus there rear shocks are in the way when driving off-road.

Work with your dealer to get the PB, you will be please going forward even though your current situation is sour.

 

[FirstTimeFord]

Below is the summary on possibly why you cant get the truck you want from Ford. You must purchase a PowerBoost so Ford can meet their CAFE quota.

Grok says:

The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), aim to improve the fuel economy of vehicles sold in the U.S. by requiring automakers to achieve a fleet-wide average fuel economy, with specific targets for passenger cars and light trucks. For the 2027-2031 model years, the standards mandate an industry-wide fleet average of approximately 50.4 miles per gallon (mpg) for passenger cars and light trucks, with light trucks facing a 2% annual increase in fuel efficiency from 2029-2031 and heavy-duty pickups and vans facing a 10% annual increase from 2030-2035. These regulations, combined with Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions standards, create significant pressure on automakers like Ford to enhance fuel efficiency and reduce emissions across their fleets.

### Impact of CAFE Standards on Ford’s Hybrid and Electric Truck Production
CAFE standards have influenced Ford’s strategic push toward hybrid and electric trucks, but it’s not accurate to say they’ve “forced” Ford to push these vehicles on consumers in a coercive sense. Instead, the standards incentivize Ford to incorporate more fuel-efficient technologies, including hybrids and electric vehicles (EVs), to meet fleet-wide fuel economy targets while aligning with market demands and corporate goals. Here’s a detailed breakdown:

1. Incentives for Hybrids and EVs:
- CAFE standards allow automakers to include electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) in their fleet calculations using a petroleum equivalency factor (PEF), which assigns high mpg-equivalent (mpg-e) ratings to EVs (e.g., a Tesla Model 3 is rated at 142 mpg-e). This significantly boosts a manufacturer’s fleet average, making hybrids and EVs attractive for compliance.
- Hybrids, like the F-150 PowerBoost, achieve about 40% better fuel economy than their gas-only counterparts due to smaller combustion engines, electric motor assistance, and regenerative braking. The F-150 PowerBoost, with 25/26 mpg city/highway and 430 hp/570 lb-ft of torque, helps Ford meet CAFE targets while offering performance that appeals to truck buyers.
- Specific CAFE incentives for full-size pickup trucks, such as credits for mild and strong hybrids (e.g., 10 g/mi CO2 credit for mild hybrids in 2017-2021), encourage Ford to integrate hybrid technology into trucks like the F-150.

2. Ford’s Strategic Response:
- Ford has proactively expanded its hybrid and EV truck lineup, not solely due to CAFE but as part of a broader strategy to meet regulatory requirements, reduce emissions, and capture market share. The F-150 PowerBoost (introduced in 2021) and the all-electric F-150 Lightning (introduced in 2022) reflect Ford’s commitment to electrified trucks. Ford’s CEO, Jim Farley, noted that nearly 30% of F-150 customers choose the PowerBoost hybrid, indicating strong consumer interest.
- Ford’s $5 billion investment in its Kentucky and Michigan plants to produce a new affordable electric midsize pickup (starting at ~$30,000) and advanced lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries shows a focus on electrification that aligns with CAFE’s push for higher efficiency.
- Ford’s voluntary agreement with California (alongside BMW, Honda, VW, and Volvo) to meet stricter emissions standards through 2026, exceeding federal CAFE requirements, demonstrates a proactive stance. This agreement includes greater electrification rates, suggesting Ford’s hybrid and EV trucks are partly a response to regulatory pressures like CAFE and state-level zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) programs.

3. Market and Consumer Dynamics:
- While CAFE standards incentivize Ford to produce more hybrids and EVs, consumer demand plays a significant role. The F-150 PowerBoost’s popularity (25/26 mpg, 430 hp, 570 lb-ft, and features like Pro Power Onboard) shows that Ford is designing hybrids that appeal to truck buyers who value performance and utility, not just fuel economy.
- Unlike EVs, which face range and charging concerns, hybrids like the PowerBoost offer a balance of efficiency and practicality, making them a less “forced” choice for consumers wary of full EVs. The Tundra i-FORCE MAX, by contrast, has limited EV mode (18 mph), suggesting Ford’s hybrid trucks are more consumer-friendly for traditional truck use cases.
- Ford’s marketing emphasizes performance and cost savings (e.g., lower fuel costs with hybrids), aligning with consumer preferences rather than pushing unwanted vehicles. However, CAFE’s footprint-based standards (larger vehicles like the F-150 have lower mpg targets, e.g., 22 mpg for a 65-75 sq ft footprint) allow Ford to balance high-efficiency vehicles with larger trucks, avoiding a heavy push of smaller, less popular models.

4. Challenges and Costs for Ford:
- CAFE compliance is costly. Increasing fuel economy standards historically hurt domestic automakers like Ford more than foreign competitors like Toyota, who exceed standards more easily due to their focus on smaller, efficient vehicles. A 1989 study estimated that raising CAFE from 26 to 28.5 mpg cost Ford $3.6 billion, while Asian automakers gained profits. Today, Ford faces similar pressures, with the American Automotive Policy Council (representing Ford, GM, and Stellantis) arguing that CAFE’s structure, combined with a proposed reduction in PEF, disadvantages truck-heavy manufacturers.
- To avoid penalties, Ford relies on hybrids and EVs to boost its fleet average. For example, the F-150 PowerBoost’s 25 mpg and the F-150 Lightning’s ~70 mpg-e help offset less efficient gas models. However, the high cost of developing electrified powertrains (e.g., $5 billion for new EV truck production) and potential price increases for consumers (estimated $2,000-$2,200 per vehicle by 2025) reflect the financial burden of CAFE compliance.

5. Unintended Consequences and Flexibility:
- CAFE’s footprint-based standards, introduced in 2007, set lower mpg targets for larger vehicles like the F-150 (e.g., 22 mpg vs. 36 mpg for a Honda Fit). This reduces pressure to downsize trucks but encourages larger truck production, which some argue offsets fuel savings and increases safety risks due to weight disparities.
- Ford can use credits (earned by exceeding CAFE targets) or pay fines for non-compliance, providing flexibility. For instance, Tesla earned $428 million in CAFE credits in Q2 2020 by selling to manufacturers like Ford who needed to offset less efficient fleets. This suggests Ford isn’t forced to flood the market with hybrids/EVs but can strategically balance production.

### Has Ford Been “Forced” to Push Hybrids/EVs?
- Not Forced, but Strongly Incentivized: CAFE standards don’t mandate specific vehicles but set fleet-wide targets that make hybrids and EVs critical for compliance. Ford’s 30% PowerBoost adoption rate and $5 billion EV truck investment show a strategic embrace of these technologies, driven by CAFE, EPA regulations, and California’s ZEV program, but tailored to consumer demand for powerful, versatile trucks.
- Consumer Choice Preserved: Ford’s hybrids (e.g., PowerBoost with 570 lb-ft) and EVs (e.g., Lightning) are designed to match traditional truck performance, avoiding the perception of “forcing” unwanted vehicles. Unlike smaller, less popular vehicles that CAFE might push in other segments, Ford’s truck lineup aligns with buyer preferences.
- Competitive and Regulatory Pressure: Compared to Toyota’s Tundra i-FORCE MAX, Ford’s PowerBoost offers better fuel economy (25/26 mpg vs. 20/24 mpg) and more hybrid functionality, suggesting Ford is leveraging CAFE incentives to gain a competitive edge, not just complying reluctantly.

### Conclusion
CAFE standards have significantly influenced Ford’s push toward hybrid and electric trucks by making them essential for meeting fleet-wide fuel economy targets (e.g., 50.4 mpg by 2031). However, Ford’s approach—offering high-performance hybrids like the F-150 PowerBoost and investing in affordable EVs—reflects a strategic alignment with both regulations and consumer demand, rather than a forced push of unwanted vehicles. The standards increase costs and complexity (e.g., advanced transmissions), which may contribute to reliability issues like those your friend experienced, but Ford’s focus on powerful, feature-rich hybrids/EVs shows they’re navigating CAFE to maintain market leadership. If you want, I can search X or recent forums for owner feedback on Ford’s hybrid/EV trucks or check for specific CAFE-related TSBs affecting the 2024 F-150.

Grok On! I'm a big fan myself. Exciting times ahead!

 

[FirstNewFord]

I was seriously pressured into changing my mind when I ordered my '25 RCSB with a 5.0. The salesman kept showing me other trucks that I could "drive away today". But I refused. I told him I was paying for it in full upon delivery and if I couldn't get exactly what I ordered, I would claw back my deposit and go to another brand. I don't have any "brand loyalty". I've owned GMC, Chevy and Ram pickups before this. I don't give a shit about the logo, I just wanted a V8 gas engine in a regular cab short bed 4X4 and it didn't really matter who made it.
I ordered in January 2025 and it was delivered in May. And when I went to pick it up, the sales people generally ignored any attempt I made at conversation. I didn't buy off the lot and I didn't finance it either so I guess I pissed some people off.
Too effin bad. When this truck falls apart, I'll but another one just like it. If they stop making them. I'll buy from the vast inventory of pre-owned trucks available to me.
If the government wants to force them to make a certain vehicle, the government can buy the unsold inventory.

 

[JumboJVT]

Longetivity expectations are just as applicable for the Gen3 Ecoboost as it is for the Powerboost.
Both drivetrains were released simultaneously.

And honestly, as an F150 Ecoboost owner for nearly a decade, and following the 3.5 even longer (2011), this Gen3 version is ALREADY shaking out as the most solid yet. As it should be, of course.

Still, I don't fault anyone for wanting what they special ordered.

Come on now, refinements to an existing ICE architecture hardly rise to the level of complexity, additional equipment and other infrastructure changes that the hybrid brings. You can't outrun the math: the more parts there are, the more opportunities for failures. You hit the nail right on the head, the Gen 3 EB should be pretty well sorted. But the PB is Gen 1.

I'm not saying that the PB won't hold up, just that there isn't any data to say it will...yet. And frankly, those that live in southern climates and trade every three years aren't providing any data at all. Unless you live or have lived up north, its hard to comprehend how hard this envirnonment is on vehicles. You won't see used rigs in your area advertised as "good northern vehicle" or "cleaan up country truck", whereas many if not most decent used vehicles here are, litterally, "southern" or "downcountry".

 

[Snakebitten]

And there's a Wyoming Powerboost here with well over 100,000 miles. Nothing but a new 12V AGM. Don't know how cold it is there, but it ain't tropical.

This isn't Ford's first Hybrid

They've actually got a long history of building them, at this point, and are pretty solid at it. We had a near flawless Cmax for 10 years. (12V batteries and a couple of rear wheel bearings are the only issues ever)

There is some additional complexity to the Powerboost over the 3.5 Ecoboost. But the Hybrid portion of the Powerboost is far from the only complexity in a dolled up KingRanch/Platinum Ecoboost.

 

[SumGuy]

Below is the summary on possibly why you cant get the truck you want from Ford. You must purchase a PowerBoost so Ford can meet their CAFE quota.

Grok says:

The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), aim to improve the fuel economy of vehicles sold in the U.S. by requiring automakers to achieve a fleet-wide average fuel economy, with specific targets for passenger cars and light trucks. For the 2027-2031 model years, the standards mandate an industry-wide fleet average of approximately 50.4 miles per gallon (mpg) for passenger cars and light trucks, with light trucks facing a 2% annual increase in fuel efficiency from 2029-2031 and heavy-duty pickups and vans facing a 10% annual increase from 2030-2035. These regulations, combined with Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions standards, create significant pressure on automakers like Ford to enhance fuel efficiency and reduce emissions across their fleets.

### Impact of CAFE Standards on Ford’s Hybrid and Electric Truck Production
CAFE standards have influenced Ford’s strategic push toward hybrid and electric trucks, but it’s not accurate to say they’ve “forced” Ford to push these vehicles on consumers in a coercive sense. Instead, the standards incentivize Ford to incorporate more fuel-efficient technologies, including hybrids and electric vehicles (EVs), to meet fleet-wide fuel economy targets while aligning with market demands and corporate goals. Here’s a detailed breakdown:

1. Incentives for Hybrids and EVs:
- CAFE standards allow automakers to include electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) in their fleet calculations using a petroleum equivalency factor (PEF), which assigns high mpg-equivalent (mpg-e) ratings to EVs (e.g., a Tesla Model 3 is rated at 142 mpg-e). This significantly boosts a manufacturer’s fleet average, making hybrids and EVs attractive for compliance.
- Hybrids, like the F-150 PowerBoost, achieve about 40% better fuel economy than their gas-only counterparts due to smaller combustion engines, electric motor assistance, and regenerative braking. The F-150 PowerBoost, with 25/26 mpg city/highway and 430 hp/570 lb-ft of torque, helps Ford meet CAFE targets while offering performance that appeals to truck buyers.
- Specific CAFE incentives for full-size pickup trucks, such as credits for mild and strong hybrids (e.g., 10 g/mi CO2 credit for mild hybrids in 2017-2021), encourage Ford to integrate hybrid technology into trucks like the F-150.

2. Ford’s Strategic Response:
- Ford has proactively expanded its hybrid and EV truck lineup, not solely due to CAFE but as part of a broader strategy to meet regulatory requirements, reduce emissions, and capture market share. The F-150 PowerBoost (introduced in 2021) and the all-electric F-150 Lightning (introduced in 2022) reflect Ford’s commitment to electrified trucks. Ford’s CEO, Jim Farley, noted that nearly 30% of F-150 customers choose the PowerBoost hybrid, indicating strong consumer interest.
- Ford’s $5 billion investment in its Kentucky and Michigan plants to produce a new affordable electric midsize pickup (starting at ~$30,000) and advanced lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries shows a focus on electrification that aligns with CAFE’s push for higher efficiency.
- Ford’s voluntary agreement with California (alongside BMW, Honda, VW, and Volvo) to meet stricter emissions standards through 2026, exceeding federal CAFE requirements, demonstrates a proactive stance. This agreement includes greater electrification rates, suggesting Ford’s hybrid and EV trucks are partly a response to regulatory pressures like CAFE and state-level zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) programs.

3. Market and Consumer Dynamics:
- While CAFE standards incentivize Ford to produce more hybrids and EVs, consumer demand plays a significant role. The F-150 PowerBoost’s popularity (25/26 mpg, 430 hp, 570 lb-ft, and features like Pro Power Onboard) shows that Ford is designing hybrids that appeal to truck buyers who value performance and utility, not just fuel economy.
- Unlike EVs, which face range and charging concerns, hybrids like the PowerBoost offer a balance of efficiency and practicality, making them a less “forced” choice for consumers wary of full EVs. The Tundra i-FORCE MAX, by contrast, has limited EV mode (18 mph), suggesting Ford’s hybrid trucks are more consumer-friendly for traditional truck use cases.
- Ford’s marketing emphasizes performance and cost savings (e.g., lower fuel costs with hybrids), aligning with consumer preferences rather than pushing unwanted vehicles. However, CAFE’s footprint-based standards (larger vehicles like the F-150 have lower mpg targets, e.g., 22 mpg for a 65-75 sq ft footprint) allow Ford to balance high-efficiency vehicles with larger trucks, avoiding a heavy push of smaller, less popular models.

4. Challenges and Costs for Ford:
- CAFE compliance is costly. Increasing fuel economy standards historically hurt domestic automakers like Ford more than foreign competitors like Toyota, who exceed standards more easily due to their focus on smaller, efficient vehicles. A 1989 study estimated that raising CAFE from 26 to 28.5 mpg cost Ford $3.6 billion, while Asian automakers gained profits. Today, Ford faces similar pressures, with the American Automotive Policy Council (representing Ford, GM, and Stellantis) arguing that CAFE’s structure, combined with a proposed reduction in PEF, disadvantages truck-heavy manufacturers.
- To avoid penalties, Ford relies on hybrids and EVs to boost its fleet average. For example, the F-150 PowerBoost’s 25 mpg and the F-150 Lightning’s ~70 mpg-e help offset less efficient gas models. However, the high cost of developing electrified powertrains (e.g., $5 billion for new EV truck production) and potential price increases for consumers (estimated $2,000-$2,200 per vehicle by 2025) reflect the financial burden of CAFE compliance.

5. Unintended Consequences and Flexibility:
- CAFE’s footprint-based standards, introduced in 2007, set lower mpg targets for larger vehicles like the F-150 (e.g., 22 mpg vs. 36 mpg for a Honda Fit). This reduces pressure to downsize trucks but encourages larger truck production, which some argue offsets fuel savings and increases safety risks due to weight disparities.
- Ford can use credits (earned by exceeding CAFE targets) or pay fines for non-compliance, providing flexibility. For instance, Tesla earned $428 million in CAFE credits in Q2 2020 by selling to manufacturers like Ford who needed to offset less efficient fleets. This suggests Ford isn’t forced to flood the market with hybrids/EVs but can strategically balance production.

### Has Ford Been “Forced” to Push Hybrids/EVs?
- Not Forced, but Strongly Incentivized: CAFE standards don’t mandate specific vehicles but set fleet-wide targets that make hybrids and EVs critical for compliance. Ford’s 30% PowerBoost adoption rate and $5 billion EV truck investment show a strategic embrace of these technologies, driven by CAFE, EPA regulations, and California’s ZEV program, but tailored to consumer demand for powerful, versatile trucks.
- Consumer Choice Preserved: Ford’s hybrids (e.g., PowerBoost with 570 lb-ft) and EVs (e.g., Lightning) are designed to match traditional truck performance, avoiding the perception of “forcing” unwanted vehicles. Unlike smaller, less popular vehicles that CAFE might push in other segments, Ford’s truck lineup aligns with buyer preferences.
- Competitive and Regulatory Pressure: Compared to Toyota’s Tundra i-FORCE MAX, Ford’s PowerBoost offers better fuel economy (25/26 mpg vs. 20/24 mpg) and more hybrid functionality, suggesting Ford is leveraging CAFE incentives to gain a competitive edge, not just complying reluctantly.

### Conclusion
CAFE standards have significantly influenced Ford’s push toward hybrid and electric trucks by making them essential for meeting fleet-wide fuel economy targets (e.g., 50.4 mpg by 2031). However, Ford’s approach—offering high-performance hybrids like the F-150 PowerBoost and investing in affordable EVs—reflects a strategic alignment with both regulations and consumer demand, rather than a forced push of unwanted vehicles. The standards increase costs and complexity (e.g., advanced transmissions), which may contribute to reliability issues like those your friend experienced, but Ford’s focus on powerful, feature-rich hybrids/EVs shows they’re navigating CAFE to maintain market leadership. If you want, I can search X or recent forums for owner feedback on Ford’s hybrid/EV trucks or check for specific CAFE-related TSBs affecting the 2024 F-150.

CAFE standards have been effectively removed via the big beautiful bill though.

 

[dadrew]

‘21 PB here, just hit 86k miles. 12v battery needed replacing and I replaced the main H7 AGM battery just because

other than that everything done to the vehicle was because I wanted to not needed to. Hopefully this helps ease your mind about longevity

 

[Old Hat]

Before getting my RCSB F-150 I really wanted a new Heritage model Bronco with the manual trans. I even placed an order with deposit and waited. Never heard a word form the dealer unless I contacted them. Bronco forum people knew more about Ford production than the dealer sales team... Ford was not building what I ordered for an unknown period. Dealer asked if I wanted to switch my order to a 4-door to get it built. Hell No!

So I bailed out on the Bronco order and got my deposit back. Found the right F-150 for me and love it! In the end it was a much better fit for us. I agree you should not fear the PB. We can't always get what we want, but sometimes we get something better!

 

[gappmast]

Wile it sucks that Ford is being an ass about your custom order I can as many other PB owners will attest that it is a amazing platform. Certainly worth taking a serious look. On many occasions the PPoB system has allows me to power the majority of my home and keep my family comfortable during extended power outages. It's done everything I have asked of it from towing to general truck stuff, and getting on average 25 mpg out of it is a nice benefit too.

It might be a great platform but when you want to sell it with 100K on the clock nobody will want it.

 

[Snakebitten]

It might be a great platform but when you want to sell it with 80K on the clock nobody will want it.

Why would it be any less appealing at 80,000 miles than an Ecoboost at 80,000 miles?

The differences between the 2 trucks at 0 miles are the same difference in the trucks at 80,000 miles.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

Why would it be any less appealing at 80,000 miles than an Ecoboost at 80,000 miles?

The differences between the 2 trucks at 0 miles are the same difference in the trucks at 80,000 miles.

Not only that but the PB will likely be able to fetch a slightly higher resale value due to it's improved fuel economy and PPoB than the straight 3.5 EB truck.

 

[gappmast]

Why would it be any less appealing at 80,000 miles than an Ecoboost at 80,000 miles?

The differences between the 2 trucks at 0 miles are the same difference in the trucks at 80,000 miles.

I wouldn't buy a truck with a battery pack that has 80k on it

 

[dadrew]

I always wondered this. Because of the hybrid battery wouldn’t in theory the 3.5 engine have less miles on it since it’s not always using the ICE

80k powerboost has less “engine” miles than an 80k ecoboost?

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