F-150 vs. new Tundra

[Calson]

The only functional criticism of the Tundra expressed was the step to get up in the bed. These steps are marginal for going back to the ground from the bed and a key reason I bought the F-150.

Had I known at the time that it would take 15 months for Ford to provide a replacement wiper motor and about the substandard H6 battery setup I would have bought a Ram 1500 instead.

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[Gord0]

The only functional criticism of the Tundra expressed was the step to get up in the bed. These steps are marginal for going back to the ground from the bed and a key reason I bought the F-150.

Had I known at the time that it would take 15 months for Ford to provide a replacement wiper motor and about the substandard H6 battery setup I would have bought a Ram 1500 instead.

You should probably trade it in on a ram. They definitely don't have any issues.

 

[Snakebitten]

If Yugo sold a truck in America, he would declare it superior to his Ford.

I'm starting to feel like a sucker though. It's not easy to get me to take the bait, but have I?

Nobody really parked their brand spanking new vehicle for 15 months while waiting for a replacement wiper motor that never malfunctioned.

I've been hooked. ????

 

[Samson16]

I've been on the Tundras forums following their truck pretty closely and I have the following observations (these are my own)

1. The Tundra's powertrain was designed from the ground up to be a Hybrid platform, and the non-hybrid trucks run fine...but the 3.4 Twin Turbo has to deal with more load and is more susceptible to the Engine go boom issues we've been hearing about.

2. Those issues seem to have been largely (though not 100%) resolved in late 2023 models.

3. Turbo failures happened in early 2022 - early 2023 models. Those appear to be be largely resolved in late 2023.

4. Fit/finish complaints are around. Toyota likely sourcing cheaper parts than usual for trim. I feel that you have probably a similar chance to have in cabin door rattles as you would with an F-150.

5. The undercarriages are immacuate and have what looks like great anti-rust coatings out of the factory. I wish F-150s did this.

6. They perform fine as a truck. In fact, the people who are doing actual truck thing report that the new Tundra is far better behaved over the old V8 when it comes to hauling and towing. Something eco-boost F-150 owners have known for many years at this point.

7. Transmission issues happen but I don't see nearly the complaints about the 10 speed for the Toyota that our F-150 gets

8. There's less cabin space, just straight up. Especially the Hybrid, where the battery occupies all the underseat storage in the backseat.

9. The technology in on par with what you'd expect with any modern truck.

10. The hybrid models are not really tuned for efficiency.

11. There's been complaints about how the transmission cannot handle a lot of stress in 4 wheel high mode, as in it gets saturated with heat and goes into limp mode. This is a non-hybrid model were this was reported. People are saying that 4 Lo is the solution, however I've never heard of an F-150 oversaturating the transmission for longer term 4-Hi.

Long term reliability, the jury is still out. Remember that forums are not really the best source of information.

Overall, I feel that the Tundra is competitive with the F-150 in some ways, not competitive in others. It's also my opinion that if you want it to be old school Toyota reliability, ironically the Hybrid model is probably the best way to go. Unfortunately, there's some big penalties (add about 7-10k just for the privilege....minimum trim for hybrid is the Limited) for going the Hybrid route and you don't even get pro power. I really think that passing on Pro-Power was a very short sighted move on Toyota's part. I wonder if the rumored refresh will rectify that.

If the F-150 could resolve its transmission issues (I've read that they've refreshed the trans for the 2024 refresh to resolve some very long standing issues with lurching transmission..is that true?), I think it could close the reliability gap enough to where the Tundra is just simply not a competitive option for real work.

Toyota die hard buddy of mine allows me to win every point regarding the Tundra except one. The “legendary” Toyota reliability has him grinning like it’s no contest every time as if my PB isn’t in the same class of vehicle. Toyota did a good job building that reputation with the Tacoma and 4Runner and it’s not easily shaken. In other news another friend just grenaded the torque converter in his baby Duramax SLT at 4k miles. Turns out we aren’t alone in the manufacturing defect department.

edit: struggling with sentence structure sucks.

 

[Snakebitten]

Toyota, Honda, Yamaha, and even Mazda

4 companies that HAVE earned great respect from me, over the decades, (I'm old) for their engineering prowess. I remember Yamahas role in the first SHO Taurus, when it arrived on the showroom floor.

Having said that, I still require them to build products that I desire to own. These aren't kitchen appliances.

These days I believe Toyota cuts many of the same corners for the same reasons that many, if not all manufacturers cut. Maybe not as many, but a blown motor is a blown motor even if it has only one "cut corner".

Where Ford does appear to be seriously behind most competitors is customer service. I'm very fortunate I haven't been affected by it. (yet)

If I did have a serious warranty repair looming, I'd much rather be dropping my vehicle off at a Toyota dealership than a Ford.

 

[Kodiak]

If Yugo sold a truck in America, he would declare it superior to his Ford.

I'm starting to feel like a sucker though. It's not easy to get me to take the bait, but have I?

Nobody really parked their brand spanking new vehicle for 15 months while waiting for a replacement wiper motor that never malfunctioned.

I've been hooked. ????

All you need is a good set of tin snips to turn this little bit of freedom into a pick up.

 

[mau47]

Toyota die hard buddy of mine allows me to win every point regarding the Tundra except one. The “legendary” Toyota reliability has him grinning like it’s no contest every time as if my PB isn’t in the same class of vehicle. Toyota did a good job building that reputation with the Tacoma and 4Runner and it’s not easily shaken. In other news another friend just grenaded the torque converter in his baby Duramax SLT at 4k miles. Turns out we aren’t alone in the manufacturing defect department.

edit: struggling with sentence structure sucks.

The Tundras are having some teething issues with the engine on the latest gen. Not sure it's a major scandal or anything, but it has happened enough its a talking point. So just throw that at him if you want a quick win.

This is very anecdotal and they have a good reputation for a reason, but I used to have an Avalon as a commuter car and my Wife currently has a Lexus, they have both been the two most problem prone cars we have ever owned (my F-150 is trying to take the crown so far). None of the issues are major, but they have had more individual trips to the dealer than any of our other cars. It's tech related stuff like blind spot sensor issues, infotainment glitches etc. not usually anything that mechanically cripples the car except for a bad solenoid on my wife's car that left her on the side of the road once.

Despite all that, the reason we have remained at least partially loyal to the brand is in our area the service is far and away better than any other brand we have dealt with. Compare that with the closest Ford dealer to me, I took the truck in for a few different issues, they tried to charge me a diagnostic fee of $160 for EACH issue I reported because they couldn't duplicate issue while it was there. They wouldn't budge until I opened a case with Ford and provided the dealer with the report from PTS with the laundry list of DTCs thrown including some while they had the truck in their possession, two of them even had TSBs associated with a software fix available. I ended up just taking the truck and updating everything myself with FDRS. I also had a wild ride with the purchasing dealer where they screwed up something, couldn't figure out how to fix it, it sat for a month waiting on Ford engineering, I finally just took the truck back and said call me when you have a fix. I ended up fixing it myself in like 10 minutes after getting home with forscan, there was a configuration mismatch after they replaced a module, a little bit of troubleshooting and knowing what they replaced pointed me right to the problem.

After two horrific incidents with two different Ford dealers in the 6 1/2 months I have owned this truck I have taken a more hands on approach as much as possible (with the help of this forum) even though it's their responsibility to fix it. There's less downtime, less headache and less anger in at least being able to troubleshoot issues myself. At some point I am going to have to take it in again to get the bed camera fixed as it doesn't work anymore but I have seriously contemplated buying a new chmsl assembly and replacing it myself to see if that fixes the issue so I don't have to deal with the service department at these dealers.

edit: spelling/grammar

 

[Snakebitten]

^^^ awesome post.

It's true that owning one of these current built F150's is a much better experience if you just take it out of the hands of the dealership service department.

I don't fault anyone who can't or won't, but I don't envy their plight.

 

[Chili]

If Yugo sold a truck in America, he would declare it superior to his Ford.

I'm starting to feel like a sucker though. It's not easy to get me to take the bait, but have I?

Nobody really parked their brand spanking new vehicle for 15 months while waiting for a replacement wiper motor that never malfunctioned.

I've been hooked. ????

So this is the guy who wants to sue Ford and have them buyback his truck because they couldn't get him a free replacement wiper motor for his perfectly working wiper motor as quickly as he wanted?

I had forgotten about this one.

Falls under the category of "you can't make this crap up".

 

[Gord0]

So this is the guy who wants to sue Ford and have them buyback his truck because they couldn't get him a free replacement wiper motor for his perfectly working wiper motor as quickly as he wanted?

I had forgotten about this one.

Falls under the category of "you can't make this crap up".

Sunny 80° day, not a cloud in sight. Can't drive my brand new F150 because someone's sprinkler might spray my windshield, then I might turn my perfectly working wipers on only to find out they won't wipe and I crash my new truck. Or worse yet, the motor may fling the wiper off the truck into my grouchy neighbor walking down the sidewalk and then they'll sue me for getting an eye poked out. Definitely can't drive the F150 today... Probably shouldn't even start it to charge the battery because the rain sense might kick the wiper motor on which may catch fire and burn my truck and house to the ground. Wonder why my battery died? Stupid Ford junk BMS killed it. Going to throw a deep cycle battery on there now so I can run it to zero charge. Wonder why my truck won't start in the cold and now this battery is dead. Stupid Ford junk BMS killed this one too.

 

[Calson]

You should probably trade it in on a ram. They definitely don't have any issues.

I have been checking the Ram forums and the issues with 21-24 model years is minor compared to Ford's F-150. Only issue with the Ram is their etorque drive unit which when if fails is going to be expensive to replace.

I am still ticked off that Ford sold me a truck for $65,000 with the full knowledge that the wiper motor could fail completely and without warning and then dragged its feet for more than year to provide a replacement part so I could safely drive my truck in the rain. Some things are not forgivable.

 

[astro_fusion]

Big safety recall on the new (22-23) Tundra today about their engine failures. 100k + trucks

 

[GypsyDanger]

The Ford 2.7 engine has long been noted to go into shutdown with no warning. I suspect that it overheated and the shutdown was done to protect the turbo unit. I went with the 3.5L for this reason as it has been more reliable for its owners.

On what planet is the 2.7 not the most trouble free of F150 motors? Cause it sure aint earth.

 

[Grafx36510]

Big safety recall on the new (22-23) Tundra today about their engine failures. 100k + trucks

Damn, that sounds a lot like the Hyundai engine recall a few years back. I’m not knocking Hyundai (because I owned 3 and they were actually decent) but it does go to show that even the vaunted Toyota can have serious manufacturing issues.

 

[CPO_F150]

Hi friends,

New member here. I have owned Fords most of my life. Starting with my 1993 F-150, then a Lincoln MKZ, then a Maverick. Never had a huge issue with these great vehicles.

Fast forward to November 2023. My wife and I married and moved to my family farm. We needed a truck to haul a newly purchased tractor and some horses. We bought a 2024 Tundra because my dad has 2 Toyotas that have been quite literally indestructible.

Now, Toyota has recalled 100K 22-23 model trucks for engine bearing failures. The 24's are not included, but the bearing in those are spinning at low milages (2K is the lowest I have seen). The value of the 22-24 trucks are plummeting. One dealer quoted me a $8k loss, the other a $12K loss. I drove a long distance and only lost 3K on a gold tier CPO F-150. The stop sale from the recall is KILLING their values and some dealerships refuse to take those as trades.

I loved the Tundra, and as much as I hate to say it, did not trust the engine to stay in tact. I did not feel like getting a short block replacement and driving a lonor for a month.

Our local Toyota dealership is billing Toyota $40k per rebuild. I know that for a fact from a service manager.

Some observations:

1. The Tundra feels bigger from inside the cab. Don't get me wrong, the F-150 does not seem small by any means, but the Tundra is "beefier" feeling.

2. The Ford has more tech. Mine is 302 high in the XLT trim, but even the regular XLT has much more tech than the Tundra. I like Sync 4 better than the Tundra's software. It is more intuitive to use by a long shot.

3. The F-150 handles like a sport car (compared to the Tundra). I can whip it around curves like nobody's business.

4. I got the 2.7 ecoboost. After looking online and talking to Ford Master Service Technicians, they told me right now the 2.7 in the F-150's are the most reliable. I am getting 24-25 MPG on back roads. BTW, the Fords normally come with a larger tank. My Tundra could go around 400 miles on a tank and the F-150 goes 600.

6. The Tundra is more refined. Where the Ford makes the slightest cluck or rattle, the Tundra never did.

7. If you use the App to start or lock/unlock your truck, it is better on the Toyota. However, you earn FordPass points on their app, and I am using mine for a free tranny/diff service today.

8. The 4x4 system in the F-150 is quicker to engage/disengage and frankly feels smoother driving in 4x4 on the Ford.

9. The Tundra's engine sounds like a real truck. The 2.7 in the Ford sounds like a jet engine spooling constantly.

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