What is PowerBoost Alternator Output

[MJ Heat]

This is from the description of each of the High Voltage equipment pieces listed in the document linked above is all I’ve seen


Generator Output
The generator for the hybrid vehicles are different from those used on the non-hybrid models. The non-hybrid vehicles have a 110-amp generator.

I read that too. I have also seen a post on another site where it was represented that this is variable output device, but no amps or voltages were listed.

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[Handle]

This article has some interesting points about BISG in hybrids. Not specific to the F150 but describes the strategy that engineers design for.

https://www.autocarpro.in/feature/t...tergenerator-important-for-mild-hybrids-56763

 

[Handle]

My interest in the hybrid electrical system started when I picked the truck up last month. Drove it home about 100 miles on interstate. Next morning I check the AGM with multimeter and it’s 12.01v. Doesn’t make sense to me to be so low. Then after a few days of short drives I get lower readings in the morning down to 11.74v. Now I’m thinking bad battery or a larger parasitic drain. But truck runs and operates fine. Having read about Job 1 trucks having bad batteries as well as a parasitic drain I thought I might be in that boat


Got a charger that works on the requirements of an AGM that CTEK sells and 11 hours later it’s fully charged. That’s when I got the Bluetooth battery monitor to easily see how it behaves. For the most part the resting voltage was at 12.3 which apparently is ok for and AGM but would still be low for any FLA I’ve had. Then I was gone for 4 days. Bluetooth reads 11.88 yesterday. Hmmm…

So fired it up. No immediate ICE after Ready but the voltmeter is seeing 13.6v at the battery. ICE fires after in gear backing out and volts pop to 14.3v. Lower then what I’d seen before. But then intermittent while driving the charging to to the AGM cuts off showing 12.3v……then charging occurs again stops and voltage gets eventually to 12.88v. Highest reading while charging being 14.6.

This morning resting voltage is back at 12.44v. So I assume. LOL. The AGM was spec’d to be able to operate fine at lower than FLA voltage and the high voltage battery thru the DCDC is ready to provide whatever is needed when you push start. Supposedly Deep Sleep kicks in when the truck reads 11.5v at the AGM but haven’t experienced that.

So as @Oxford_Powerboost wrote the DC/DC convertor along with some BCM is in charge of all things 12v and the AGM job is not as a primary starter battery but is as described in the modifier guide.

I still would like to understand how exactly the BISG works on our trucks. That article suggests the conventional starter is in the design for when the truck decides it’s to cold and doesn’t enlist the the BISG to avoid belt slippage.

 

[Snakebitten]

I greatly appreciate the back & forth here! Your logic train makes sense to me. But at the same time, I am somewhat aghast at just how much supposition that there still is, after more than a year of production, for method of operation, of this incredibly expensive & complex device. I can only guess that there would be a sequence of operation owners manual available, if Ford wasn't trying to protect some competitive advantage. If such a manual exists, I am not smart enough to find it.

There is a 15,000 page Ford Service Manual for the Powerboost.

And while I agree the Powerboost is "incredibly complex", I think it is just as incredibly inexpensive. In fact I don't see how Ford is covering engineering and development costs for the Hybrid Powerboost for the tiny (relative) upcharge for all that technology added to what is otherwise a normal F150. Much less all the pieces to that complex portion of the truck.

I have pondered it from a business standpoint and would guess that Ford did not require the Powerboost development team to fund the the offering alone. Perhaps since electrification of the F150 is far bigger than just the niche Powerboost, maybe the costs were shared with a larger team including the Lightning?

Just the ridiculous heat exchanger portion of the exhaust system retails for $800
It's an almost unknown unique piece to the long list of components unique to the Powerboost F150

 

[Handle]

There is a 15,000 page Ford Service Manual for the Powerboost.

And while I agree the Powerboost is "incredibly complex", I think it is just as incredibly inexpensive. In fact I don't see how Ford is covering engineering and development costs for the Hybrid Powerboost for the tiny (relative) upcharge for all that technology added to what is otherwise a normal F150. Much less all the pieces to that complex portion of the truck.

I have pondered it from a business standpoint and would guess that Ford did not require the Powerboost development team to fund the the offering alone. Perhaps since electrification of the F150 is far bigger than just the niche Powerboost, maybe the costs were shared with a larger team including the Lightning?

Just the ridiculous heat exchanger portion of the exhaust system retails for $800
It's an almost unknown unique piece to the long list of components unique to the Powerboost F150

Oh geez…….I just read that entire thread.

 

[MJ Heat]

There is a 15,000 page Ford Service Manual for the Powerboost.

And while I agree the Powerboost is "incredibly complex", I think it is just as incredibly inexpensive. In fact I don't see how Ford is covering engineering and development costs for the Hybrid Powerboost for the tiny (relative) upcharge for all that technology added to what is otherwise a normal F150. Much less all the pieces to that complex portion of the truck.

I have pondered it from a business standpoint and would guess that Ford did not require the Powerboost development team to fund the the offering alone. Perhaps since electrification of the F150 is far bigger than just the niche Powerboost, maybe the costs were shared with a larger team including the Lightning?

Just the ridiculous heat exchanger portion of the exhaust system retails for $800
It's an almost unknown unique piece to the long list of components unique to the Powerboost F150

It is not that I think that the Powerboost is over priced. It is that I think that something this expensive & complex should really have more information about function readily available for owners. As I stated in my prior post, there is significant supposition from owners, & apparently Ford technicians, about how this truck actually functions, after more than a year of production.

I read the entire 750 page Owners Manual for the 2022 F150. I have to agree with another poster here, who said that it is "impressively uninformative". I looked online & found a 17,600 page 2022 F150 Service Manual, that I have not yet decided if I will purchase. It would be nice if there was some technical manual company out there that could offer something in between, that would not necessarily tell you how to fix it, but at least inform more about sequence of operation & how it works.

Now, at the same time, I realize that most folks probably don't care. They want to turn the key & go down the road. I guess that I am just the rare idiot who wants to know what makes it tic.

 

[Snakebitten]

Buy the service manual.
It's incredibly informative.
Answers most questions, but still some grey areas when I research certain aspects.

You'll quickly know more about the truck than the technician at the dealership.

 

[MJ Heat]

Buy the service manual.
It's incredibly informative.
Answers most questions, but still some grey areas when I research certain aspects.

You'll quickly know more about the truck than the technician at the dealership.

I have historically always been much more informed about my vehicles, than just about everyone that I have ever encountered at a dealership, simply because I have had a great deal more interest in knowing. It is likely that I will end up buying a full service manual, if I cannot find something else that is at least substantially more informative than the basic owners manual.

 

[ks54703]

View attachment 41662

This is all the Specs given from Ford on this part. Used my PB VIN on a Ford Parts site and entered alternator in the search section.

There are (2) 12VDC batteries on a PB, (1) in engine compartment, (2) under the passenger side rear seat.

Many times while backing out of the garage or other short moves the truck runs on only EV power to later start the ICE engine. That may answer the why that the charging system starts to charge prior to the ICE starting.

In reading the red highlighted area in the description it looks like a poor time to be fiddling with it if one what's to have a operational vehicle. ( Item is currently on back order. Contact Your Dealer to check on part availability. )

 

[Snakebitten]

I honestly don't know of any publication regarding the Powerboost other than what Ford provides the customer and the service technician.
If Ford continues to produce the Powerboost and sticks to the current design for a few years, then I suppose some company that sees a market for a consumer publication might produce one.

I too am just wired to want to know how something works. Even my profession caters to that nature. I bought the Powerboost solely for the 7.2KW generator (I am an RV full timer) and didn't need much information to understand the very clever concept of leveraging the Hybrid battery with an inverter to accomplish the generator function.
But then as I owned it for a little while and joining this forum, I saw there were a lot of questions that prompted my curiosity. So I grabbed the service manual.

A perfect example is the recent flurry of Powerboosts leaking coolant near the rear of the truck from the exhaust midpipe heat exchanger. Early reports indicated that the dealerships weren't even aware of the very unique coolant loop layout.

With the manual it was easy to discover what the components are and why they are there and what purpose they have.

This truck is stunning in so many ways from an engineering point of view. With lots of potential teething issues. Honestly if I had more confidence in the service industry I might not have made as much effort. But in all fairness to them the Powerboost is a brand new world to them too.

 

[John_C]

The DC/DC converter charging circuit ("alternator" output, if you will) is rated for 220 amps. Here's a few snippets from the FSM relating to this. Hope this helps.

 

[PWong]

FYI, according to my understanding
The high voltage traction battery HVTB is 450 VDC nominal.
So the hybrid generator should output higher than 450 VDC to charge the HVTB.
The traction motor is a 3 phase AC motor.
So there is an inverter to convert 450VDC to 3 phase AC to power the motor.
There’s a DC(450V)/DC(12V) Converter to provide power to all auxiliaries and charge the battery.

 

[PWong]

There is another inverter that converts 450VDC to single phase 120 VAC.

 

[Millionvill3]

270 amp. its on the sticker on the back of the alt. I have a pic on my phone can upload if you want. Some of you guys don't know what the heck you are talking about. However, yes the system is controlled by a 300+v battery with inverters but the 12v alt still charges and does so at 270amps.

 

[Snooker_ML]

My understanding is that the belt driven starter/generator is only used to charge the hybrid high voltage battery when the engine is in idle (as well as start the engine when the truck is not moving or moving at slow speeds). The power to the 12V system comes from a step down DC/DC converter straight out of the high voltage battery. You would need to know the output of that converter, and I think that’s been hard to figure out so far

The above also explains why the post before me experiences 12V battery charging as soon as the system is readied up, without the ICE spinning

Interesting topic and hopefully we can get some electrical diagrams to look at.

So your saying that the BISG while the truck is running does not provide any direct charging to to the AGM but instead only charges the high voltage hybrid battery which in turn thru the DCDC charges the AGM.

Wonder why after ICE starts that volts to AGM jumps up to 15.3 volts and stays there. And since AGM chargers typically max out at 14.7. You would think the control circuit From the DCDC converter would just maintain the 14.6 while driving and that any extra voltage provided by the BISG would get sent to the hybrid battery not the AGM.

Bump. According to a much newer discussion, this is not what is currently believed.
It is "believed" that the BISG belt driven motor/generator is only used as a motor (so really it is a BIS?), energized only with 12v from the main AGM battery, to start the ICE (1 of 3 ways to start the ICE). The generator capability (if present) is not used.
The HV battery is only charged by the electric drive motor/generator in the transmission.
The AGM 12v battery is charged from the HV battery anytime it needs to, via a DC/DC inverter.

I'm posting this so you won't be misled by reading this thread first, like I was.

See discussion here:
https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...ge-how-to-power-accessories.13862/post-327901
and
https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...ge-how-to-power-accessories.13862/post-326255

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