Vehicles thefts Key vs PTS

[HammaMan]

Relay attacks -- Faraday boxes for all keys!

Product idea. Hijack the start button with a custom harness (with a little ESP32) so that when the vehicle is attempted to be started w/ out the 'secret variable' the horn just honks morse code SOS. Use a magnet or hidden button (or another button in the vehicle) to allow normal push button start behavior. Can 'valet' mode it via bluetooth or a different hidden switch.

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[Highway 11]

Faraday attacks are out of vogue now where I'm at. Too many faraday boxes. Ford's key programming software has been cracked for the Gen 14 trucks. Gone in 60 (times 4) seconds.

A faraday bag will slow them down. But it won't stop them from getting into the truck. An OBD port lock will stop most thieves (on Dodges, they figured out you just go to the opposite end of the cable where it plugs in behind the glove box to bypass the lock) The only thing that seems to work reliably these days is key start or an IGLA immobilizer device.

@HammaMan: I like your idea but the horn wire on F150s is easily cut and this has been a problem going back into Gen 13.

@Big Dog Daddy: Certain Ford models have the motion sensitive key. For some reason, the F150 isn't one of them.

 

[JExpedition07]

I pulled the starter motor and fuel pump relays out from under the hood, fairly straight forward. That will help ease the mind for tonight. It may not be fool proof, but the thief then has to open the hood and fumble with replacement relays. That creates more noise and time to be caught.

 

[HammaMan]

@HammaMan: I like your idea but the horn wire on F150s is easily cut and this has been a problem going back into Gen 13.

The thing about it though w/ relay attacks which are pretty much the go-to fueling thefts is that they think they're successful when the door opens because they're relaying the fob, but when the vehicle doesn't start and instantly begins honking, their well rehearsed routine is broken. Not only that but the horn is making a very deliberate pattern that they've never seen before. It will instantly dawn on them that they're not getting the vehicle because it won't start and now their in-the-shadows operation is broken and they're drawing attention. Simply put, they gone.

They're not out to take your vehicle, they're out to take a vehicle. They want easy vehicles and to not be caught. The honking vehicle that won't start has been modified and they're not going to stick around to figure out what's been changed to take it. The idea is to buy time, like any high end lock does. No lock is pick proof or indestructible, their complexity is to increase the time it takes to bypass it putting the thief into a vulnerable position -- also why businesses like gas stations use time delay safes. There's a high probability that the owner of the vehicle is about to interrupt the party with some lead friends.

 

[Highway 11]

What you're describing (sans the horn) is an IGLA device. Without the correct PIN entered, the vehicle doesn't start, or in case of the setup on my XLT, it automatically shuts off and won't restart when shifted out of park. Some installers in the States pair it with a Compustar system so that when a thief thinks they've disabled the (only) horn and taped up the hazard lights with duct tape, their plans, like you've said, go to crap and they run.

Here's a video of a recent F150 theft in the Toronto area. Note no relay attack - the horn gets disabled, the door popped with a rod, and the keys programmed and gone.

https://www.f150tremor.com/threads/my-2023-tremor-got-stolen-1-month-new.3582/post-52904

Unfortunately in Canada guns are for sport, our courts are backlogged by years despite a 18 month limit on proceedings resulting in charges being dropped, and self-defence is so narrowly defined you'd be charged before the criminal who stole your car. No pursuit permitted since it's a property crime as well. And you wonder why there's a vehicle theft epidemic.

 

[Popplemer]

What you're describing (sans the horn) is an IGLA device. Without the correct PIN entered, the vehicle doesn't start, or in case of the setup on my XLT, it automatically shuts off and won't restart when shifted out of park. Some installers in the States pair it with a Compustar system so that when a thief thinks they've disabled the (only) horn and taped up the hazard lights with duct tape, their plans, like you've said, go to crap and they run.

Here's a video of a recent F150 theft in the Toronto area. Note no relay attack - the horn gets disabled, the door popped with a rod, and the keys programmed and gone.

https://www.f150tremor.com/threads/my-2023-tremor-got-stolen-1-month-new.3582/post-52904

Unfortunately in Canada guns are for sport, our courts are backlogged by years despite a 18 month limit on proceedings resulting in charges being dropped, and self-defence is so narrowly defined you'd be charged before the criminal who stole your car. No pursuit permitted since it's a property crime as well. And you wonder why there's a vehicle theft epidemic.

Most states in the US aren't far behind. Here in NJ you're not allowed to shoot anyone breaking into your house, stealing or defacing your property etc unless they pose an immediate threat to your life. Even with that criteria met, you'll still be arrested and charged as most municipalities fiercely enforce no discharge laws. Whilst sitting in jail you'll be lambasted in the news media for legal possession of firearms and "hundreds of rounds" of ammunition. I've seen it many times. Imagine being an avid golfer and being shamed for having baskets of hundreds of golf balls you use for sport. But I digress...

Land of the free indeed, so long as you're not a law abiding citizen. I block in my truck in my driveway with my wife's car. But it sounds like I should probably get a few of those Faraday bags though...

 

[Kanuck]

On many new vehicles the key fob "falls asleep " when left stationary on a table, and "wakes" on motion, picking it up from the table. This prevents a signal scanner from obtaining a signal from it that can be passed through to the vehicle. GM has added this technology to there key fobs in 23, and I'm not certain as to whether or not Ford key fobs have this technology. If they don't the only option is to leave your fob in a mylar bag or metal box at night.

Will check this out. When I have the truck in my shop, I hang the fob on a peg on the wall. I do this so the welcome lights don't come on when I come into the shop or get close to the truck. I have also left the fob in thetruck, but can't remember what happened when I got close. Will check it out today.

 

[Kanuck]

What you're describing (sans the horn) is an IGLA device. Without the correct PIN entered, the vehicle doesn't start, or in case of the setup on my XLT, it automatically shuts off and won't restart when shifted out of park. Some installers in the States pair it with a Compustar system so that when a thief thinks they've disabled the (only) horn and taped up the hazard lights with duct tape, their plans, like you've said, go to crap and they run.

Here's a video of a recent F150 theft in the Toronto area. Note no relay attack - the horn gets disabled, the door popped with a rod, and the keys programmed and gone.

https://www.f150tremor.com/threads/my-2023-tremor-got-stolen-1-month-new.3582/post-52904

Unfortunately in Canada guns are for sport, our courts are backlogged by years despite a 18 month limit on proceedings resulting in charges being dropped, and self-defence is so narrowly defined you'd be charged before the criminal who stole your car. No pursuit permitted since it's a property crime as well. And you wonder why there's a vehicle theft epidemic.

But officer, I was cleaning it when it discharged. I didn't know it was loaded with a full clip.?‍?‍?‍?‍?‍?‍?‍

 

[SilverPigeon]

Got 2 of these zippo-style metal boxes a year before the truck ?; one has spare fob in it in a safe, the other fob only sees daylight when I'm driving ?

 

[Big Dog Daddy]

Will check this out. When I have the truck in my shop, I hang the fob on a peg on the wall. I do this so the welcome lights don't come on when I come into the shop or get close to the truck. I have also left the fob in thetruck, but can't remember what happened when I got close. Will check it out today.

Relay attacks are accomplished because most key fobs transmitt a small signal even when laying stationary on a table they're still awake. The newest fobs fall asleep when stationary after X number of minutes and then wake on motion. By simply picking it up. Such as being in your pocket walking up to the truck.
Does anyone know if Ford Fobs have a sleep mode function to them? @HammaMan ?

 

[Tall Tail]

Anyone have a product website link (amazon or other) for a Faraday bag?
Why are some $10 and some $100?
What specs should I be looking for?

 

[HammaMan]

This is what we have for protections here... Also extends not only to felony theft of property, but felony damage to property (must be in the act, not after activity has ceased)

1. A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property:
   1. Lawfully in his possession;
   2. Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
   3. Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
2. The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is not justified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

- Landowner has right to shoot person who is or reasonably appears to be a burglar. Johnson v. Jackson, 140 Ga. App. 252, 230 S.E.2d 756 (1976).
- One entering another's property intending to commit imprudent and felonious act assumes risk of consequences. Johnson v. Jackson, 140 Ga. App. 252, 230 S.E.2d 756 (1976)

There's also castle doctrine / no duty to retreat / several affirmative defences.

Hope to never need it, but glad the protections exist in the event another forces my or my families hand. Being able to extend the protections to another allows neighbors to defend property as well. All of my neighbors and I have given permission. It's counterproductive to one's future health to be a thief around these parts.

 

[Nasto]

Anyone have a product website link (amazon or other) for a Faraday bag?
Why are some $10 and some $100?
What specs should I be looking for?

Bought this for home and the other for the road. They work well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W94QLKM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B4DNQZ34/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[HammaMan]

Faraday cages are a really simple concept. You can foil line a box of your choosing to make one. Foil/mylar lined chip bags work too.

 

[Big Dog Daddy]

Most states in the US aren't far behind. Here in NJ you're not allowed to shoot anyone breaking into your house, stealing or defacing your property etc unless they pose an immediate threat to your life. Even with that criteria met, you'll still be arrested and charged as most municipalities fiercely enforce no discharge laws. Whilst sitting in jail you'll be lambasted in the news media for legal possession of firearms and "hundreds of rounds" of ammunition. I've seen it many times. Imagine being an avid golfer and being shamed for having baskets of hundreds of golf balls you use for sport. But I digress...

Land of the free indeed, so long as you're not a law abiding citizen. I block in my truck in my driveway with my wife's car. But it sounds like I should probably get a few of those Faraday bags though...

My thoughts exactly! This blue state we live in makes law abiding citizens criminals all of the time. We really need to get the hell out of here and move a state that protects it citizens and not criminals!

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