Ticketed for parking my PowerBoost Hybrid in a Hybrid Spot

[FrankThompson]

Wow, what a way to disincentivize people from making "green" decisions. At least the MA plates are the same price as regular ones.

Saying that most road infrastructure is maintained by taxes on Gasoline, I don't see that big of an issue with it. Until they find a way to better spread the cost to those that use less or no gas for the same miles used, I don't mind this. Should still end up being cheaper over all.

*as I'm sure most know, road infrastructure maintenance is normally paid for by gas taxes (consumption tax) and it made sense in the past because those that used the roads paid the taxes to maintain those roads. You drove more, you used more gas, you paid more in taxes to maintain the roads. Now you have people using the roads who are paying less or no taxes to maintain those roads. Some states like Oregon and Utah are testing changing this to a miles driven tax, which again makes sense for the types of vehicles we have and again evenly spreads the cost of maintenance across all those that use it.

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[jflottawa]

miles driven tax

That would be tough... I know - it's just food for thought. What if you're constantly crossing state lines? This would have to be implemented nationally where the "home state" picks up the revenue for the mileage-based driving, hoping it balances out in the end.

Does make sense that somehow vehicles that don't pay the gas tax need to pay something to offset the wear and tear put on the roads - great comment @FrankThompson

 

[xtraman122]

Saying that most road infrastructure is maintained by taxes on Gasoline, I don't see that big of an issue with it. Until they find a way to better spread the cost to those that use less or no gas for the same miles used, I don't mind this. Should still end up being cheaper over all.

*as I'm sure most know, road infrastructure maintenance is normally paid for by gas taxes (consumption tax) and it made sense in the past because those that used the roads paid the taxes to maintain those roads. You drove more, you used more gas, you paid more in taxes to maintain the roads. Now you have people using the roads who are paying less or no taxes to maintain those roads. Some states like Oregon and Utah are testing changing this to a miles driven tax, which again makes sense for the types of vehicles we have and again evenly spreads the cost of maintenance across all those that use it.

That's true, I was forgetting the lack of gas tax, I've heard that argument before. In fact, you can even make the argument some EVs are harder on the road due to their increased weights. For example, a Tesla Model 3 weighs a heck of a lot more than the average ICE equivalent midsize sedan, therefore ripping through tires quicker and likely taking a harder toll on the road as a result.

 

[FrankThompson]

That would be tough... I know - it's just food for thought. What if you're constantly crossing state lines? This would have to be implemented nationally where the "home state" picks up the revenue for the mileage-based driving, hoping it balances out in the end.

Does make sense that somehow vehicles that don't pay the gas tax need to pay something to offset the wear and tear put on the roads - great comment @FrankThompson

That's a great point and one I hadn't considered! I just read about the Oregon/Utah tests and hadn't really considered the cross state issue.

Obviously a tricky issue, but continuing to depend on gas taxes for road maintenance is no longer sustainable. I wonder how CA is going to handle it with them dictating no more ICE cars sold by 2035 (I know, they keep pushing that date back).

No offense to all Tesla Owners (or EV owners in general), but how many complain of bad road conditions not really thinking how they contributes zero to their upkeep.

*I have taken some liberty to assume that most states if not all use gas taxes for this purpose. I'm fairly confident this is how it is done in my home state of FL.

 

[ssimpala1901]

I would park in the hybrid spot if it was labeled hybrid or electric vehicles only, is it my responsibility to declare my hybrid is not hybrid enough to be a hybrid according to the government? (if there was a note stating certain qualifications and my truck did not qualify then that is a different story) The sticker on the truck said it is a hybrid. That said, I typically park in the back-forty away from everyone else, but if I was stuck and the hybrid spot was the only one available I sure would park there.

 

[Kanuck]

That would be tough... I know - it's just food for thought. What if you're constantly crossing state lines? This would have to be implemented nationally where the "home state" picks up the revenue for the mileage-based driving, hoping it balances out in the end.

Does make sense that somehow vehicles that don't pay the gas tax need to pay something to offset the wear and tear put on the roads - great comment @FrankThompson

This would be no different in Canada with the semi drivers having to keep records of miles driven in other provinces. Then submit what they call up here "FUEL TAX" With navigation on the trucks, the truck could log miles driven in what province/state for you. Would be a big PITA tho. But rest assured, that the government will find a way to take more of our hard earned money.

 

[DANJENS]

Love this thread. Really tough solving 1st world problems. I love the idea of being able to go all electric. Some of this is cause of the environment but also some of it is just the idea of not having to sit in the cold pumping gas in the winter in the midwest. That is perhaps the best incentive offered and it is a "natural" benefit.

I don't miss the irony of a government giving special parking, vehicle rebates, and home improvement perks for people who can afford an EV or hybrid when they claim to be looking out for the poor. "Let them eat cake" is now "let then use electric. "

For now while the green movement can pat themselves on the back with perks like closer parking and the poorest people who can still afford a car will have to walk further cause they can only afford that 13 year old rusted out dented civic that will soon be unable to pass a smog test..... and if they had an EV they couldn't afford to have a charger installed every time they have to change apartments in their low income budget range.

Of course the poor can deal with higher and higher gas prices. I am fortunate to charge my PHEV at an equivalent of 0.32 cents per gallon and pay 50 dollars extra a year to register it since I am not paying gas taxes for the roads.

But if the people want to make some groups special remember what syndrome said.

 

[GolfR]

That's true, I was forgetting the lack of gas tax, I've heard that argument before. In fact, you can even make the argument some EVs are harder on the road due to their increased weights. For example, a Tesla Model 3 weighs a heck of a lot more than the average ICE equivalent midsize sedan, therefore ripping through tires quicker and likely taking a harder toll on the road as a result.

In some areas a high efficiency vehicle let you drive in the HOV or express lanes with one person or for free. That could justify some offset to a higher registration fee. I know around DC that can make a REAL difference to a morning or evening commute.

 

[wayfarer556]

Title pretty much says it all, on a recent business trip I parked my truck in a special section with spots reserved for hybrid or electric vehicles at Boston Logan airport. Came back at the end of the week and found 2 separate tickets for “Parking in hybrid/EV spot”… Now I get to fight with MassPort ticketing (Who only accept appeals by written mail, ugh) for them incorrectly giving my hybrid vehicle a ticket for parking in a hybrid spot.

As much as I appreciate how subtly they did the badging on the truck, a little badge here or there indicating hybrid something or other or a little electrical symbol somewhere would have really helped in situations like this. As mad as I want to be about the ticket, I honestly can’t blame the people writing them for not knowing. Unless they curiously decided to search what “POWERBOOST” means from the badge on the door there would be absolutely nothing indicating the truck is indeed a hybrid and allowed to use the spots.

I'm going to be honest. I really want you to keep us updated for no other reason than the entertainment value of forcing a government agency to acknowledge that hybrid trucks exist.
To be fair, I don't think there's a "Hybrid" badge on the new Tundra either. I believe the hybrid powertrain is called the "I-Force Max" which sounds like a video card lol.

It would be even better if a result of your case they had to change the law.

 

[xtraman122]

I'm going to be honest. I really want you to keep us updated for no other reason than the entertainment value of forcing a government agency to acknowledge that hybrid trucks exist.
To be fair, I don't think there's a "Hybrid" badge on the new Tundra either. I believe the hybrid powertrain is called the "I-Force Max" which sounds like a video card lol.

It would be even better if a result of your case they had to change the law.

I’ll let everyone know once I know… Mailed in my appeal about 3 or 4 days after getting home and have yet to hear anything from them at all. Can’t even find a phone number to call them and find out if they received the appeal, at this point the tickets are now technically late.

 

[Gros Ventre]

The tax on gasoline was designed to be a "miles driven" tax. Then with the 1973 shock and the drive to ever higher MPGs, it kind of faded as a miles driven tax. However, be aware that with a hybrid (non-plugin type) you do pay an appropriate tax on the energy consumed. Simply, the energy stored in the battery and later expended by the electric motor was generated from taxed gasoline. You paid your gasoline taxes for the Powerboost. It is only the plug-in hybrids that bypass the tax-man, since they receive power from the electric grid...

 

[Kanuck]

xtraman122 brought a good point about weight of the vehicles. In Canada, spring time when there is freeze / thaw cycle happening, there are road weight restriction. These reduce the weight allowed on the roads to 65% of normal allowed weights (on some roads I have seen 45%). That time of year, I could get a over weight ticket with my truck if I loaded it to it's rated payload. With the heavier EV's it could cause some travel restrictions placed on where they could go.

 

[mike4339]

Completely beyond my comprehension why someone with a hybrid that does not need to be plugged in gets special privileges in a parking lot.
I can actually understand the reason for parking for plug in vehicles, but even that has bullshit built right in.
You have now tied up a charger for however long your trip is keeping others from the station til you return.

I haven't read through all the posts to see if this is mentioned, but I feel the same about HOV/carpool lanes. People driving in those lanes withs kids in carseats..The purpose is to reduce cars on the road. They should say 2 or more licensed drivers.

 

[PPEng15]

While I am still waiting on my PB, based off of what I have read and my driving style (mostly interstate), I do not see that I will be getting much better fuel economy than my current 3.5 EB. It would stink to have to pay extra taxes, just because the PB gets lumped in with true EVs.
I ordered a PB for the 7.2kw, not for fuel economy.

 

[Beercity]

That's a great point and one I hadn't considered! I just read about the Oregon/Utah tests and hadn't really considered the cross state issue.

Obviously a tricky issue, but continuing to depend on gas taxes for road maintenance is no longer sustainable. I wonder how CA is going to handle it with them dictating no more ICE cars sold by 2035 (I know, they keep pushing that date back).

No offense to all Tesla Owners (or EV owners in general), but how many complain of bad road conditions not really thinking how they contributes zero to their upkeep.

*I have taken some liberty to assume that most states if not all use gas taxes for this purpose. I'm fairly confident this is how it is done in my home state of FL.

I frequent the Chicago area and once I cross the state line from WI to IL we face tons of tolls. We get double taxed, once when paying at the pump and again when crossing state lines and exiting the freeway.
I would assume when we fill up in IL we are also paying a state gas tax as well... but we normally fill up in WI before heading down to see our friends in IL.

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