Shaking after replacing wheels and tires.....twice

[thekevin]

Sorry for the long read but I am trying to get some ideas on where to go from here.
I have a 24 Screw 4x4 with 9300 miles on it. I tow a travel trailer so I wanted to get some 10ply tires. This is where my problems started.

3500 miles - I bought a set of used 17" Ultra 17x9 +18 wheels with 285/70/17 Toyo Open Country AT3 10ply tires on them. They were more than half tread. The truck drove completely normal. I had Discount Tire swap my sensors out of my factory 20's in to these wheels. I noticed a few days later that their were some stick on wheel weights laying in my drive way. I threw them away and didnt' think anything about it.

8400 miles - I didn't like the wet traction with the Toyo's so I ordered a set of Cooper Discoverer ATP 10ply tires also in 285/70/17 through Discount Tire. When I drove home I noticed at highway speeds that the truck was hopping. I took it back the next day and they said that my left rear didn't have any weights on it and was 4oz out of balance and wondered if I had hit something. They rebalanced all of the tires and when they were pulling out of the bay one of the workers stopped them and noticed it had peeled the weights off against my brake caliper. They pulled it back in and instead of using stick on weights they used tack on weights on the inside bead on the rear wheels and sent me on my way. On the way home the truck was still shaking at speed. I made some posts on the internet and learned that because I have the max tow package on my truck I can't run 17" wheels. I took my truck an hour away to a different tire shop and they rebalanced all of the wheels with tack on weights and it didn't make any difference. Truck still shakes from 62 to 78 mph on the road. I ordered a new set of 18x9 +18 Moto Metal wheels and 275/70/18 Cooper Discoverer AT3 XLT 10ply tires. from Discount Tire.

9200 miles - Discount Tire put on my 18s and new tires. They checked the alignment and said it was right on the edge of being out and they didn't have the tools to adjust it but that it was close enough it should still be ok. I drove it home and the same issue was still there with it bouncing from 62 to 78mph. I took it to the dealership and told them what Discount Tire said about the alignment. The dealership aligned the truck and said it was slightly out and they test drove it and said the bounce was still there. They said they checked everything in the front end and that it must be the wheels and tires. I told them that this was 2 different sets of wheels and tires that did the same thing and they said that some of these new trucks just really don't like aftermarket setups and to go back to stocks.

I am at a loss here. I already sold my stocks so I don't have a way without buying a another set to test it out. I am about $4000 in to trying to put some wheels and tires on my truck and I can't stand the way it is driving. I don't understand how a 3/4 worn set of Toyo's drove perfect and once I put new tires on it all went to hell. Is there anything else I can try or should I start looking for a set of stocks to put back on it. Discount Tire is trying to help. They ordered some hub centric rings and a set of 20" Moto Metal wheels to see if that makes a difference but I just can't see that another set of wheels is going to fix the issue.

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[SALEEN961]

If you can get a shop to run the truck at 62-78mph on a lift, there's a good chance that something will start shaking and make the issue obvious. Sometimes certain vibrations can only be reproduced at ride height. In that case, your truck would need to be driven on a four post lift that keeps the suspension loaded.

If the hub bore of your aftermarket wheels doesn't match your F150s hubs, hubcentric rings should have been installed from the very beginning.

Wheel balancing is usually given to the least experienced guy in the shop, and I lost count of how many warranty wheel balances I had to do a long time ago. Shops also have a bad habit of not calibrating their balancers. Road force balancing is the best option for identifying and correcting tire vibrations, but finding someone to do a good job of it can be difficult. I would ask to see the road force values before and after balancing.

If you're chasing a stubborn vibration, you want the road force to be as low as possible and not just "good enough". If the road force is within limits at 25lbs, but the balancer predicts that 10lbs of road force is possible, have them reposition the tire in an effort to reduce the road force.

 

[thekevin]

Discount Tire called Wheel Pros today while I was in there and said that the hubcentric rings shouldn't be needed but they ordered them anyway. They told me that they did road force balance it but I also noticed that the front right has weights double stacked on it and looks like there is 30x .25oz weights on it which seems like a lot to me. I think I will swap that one with one of the rears that only has a few weights on it tomorrow and see what that does. Also, I just looked and the wheels on my truck now have a hub bore of 95.1 and I think these trucks are 87.1 so that may be my whole issue.

 

[FaaWrenchBndr]

I was just gonna suggest that the hub size is not proper for the truck.

It happens to quite a few people they buy wheels by the looks and assholes with no experience. Say it’ll fit. It’s got six lugs.

Sucks to see you have to go through this

 

[veloci1`]

I was just gonna suggest that the hub size is not proper for the truck.

It happens to quite a few people they buy wheels by the looks and assholes with no experience. Say it’ll fit. It’s got six lugs.

Sucks to see you have to go through this

I went through something like that on my 2020 ranger fx4 (treded it in for my 2024 f150). I tried the hub rings, even metal ones, and I had a similar vibration as you. I bought a set of ranger tremor wheels and all my issues went away. If you want aftermarket wheels, make sure the center hub is exactly what your truck needs, no adaptors or hub rings. I would try to get a set of raptor or tremor wheels if I were you.
I did that for my 2024 f150 stx 4wd. Smooth as factory.

 

[GR8BBQ]

Something to consider. I had similar "untraceable out of balance feeling" problems with a Ram in the past... Turned out to be some uncured asphalt that I ran over at some point splashed up on the driveshaft. The driveshaft was out of balance and it sure felt like wheel or tire problems.

 

[bjl95mustang]

Verify the hub size.

But what concerns me more is the amount of weights on the one rim. They are saying it needs almost half a pound of weights to balance a new tire and rim?

 

[thekevin]

This was my front right wheel, there was 36x .25oz weights on it.

This was the back left. I swapped them around and I can definitely feel the shake more in my seat than in the steering wheel now.

 

[Eighthtry]

1. Discount Tire knows nothing about alignment. They may or may not know how to properly mount a tire. They have gorillas installing tires. They can make a big difference when balancing tires to minimize the amount of weights that go onto a wheel. The tire may need to be rotated on the wheel to flatten out a miss-match in balance. The wheel may be heavier on one side than the other. Same for the tire. This was standard practice in the old days. I don't know how road force works, but I'm thinking it should start from the best positioning. I also expect Roadforce to know exactly where to put the weights and on which side to do so, but the goal is to minimize weights by starting from a more balanced platform.

2. The mounting hub may be not be flat in relationship to the wheel. In other words, when the wheel hub is mounted to the brake hub there should be no side to side runout on the wheel.

3. Weights glued to weights is stupid. That is gorillas for you. There must be preparation of the inside of the rim for stick-on weights. Make sure you remove all of the left over adhesive and road grime before you rebalance. Alcohol comes to mind. The weights can't stick if the surface isn't clean.

4. Quality hub centric rings should be on that truck. Steel, not plastic. If anyone tells you otherwise run. Those rings are there for one purpose only. To make sure that wheel is mounted exactly where it should be. Don't rely on lug nuts to make that decision.

5. The wheels could be out of round. That is easy to check at Discount Tire on the balance machine without tire. I have experienced that, both up and down and side to side.

6. Buy quality tires. Some tires are less expensive for a reason. I have no experience with 10 ply and hope to keep it that way.

7. Check your front end components. No one greases front ends anymore so one must assume they actually put grease in at the factory. Maybe. Maybe not.

8. Make sure the driveshaft is in balance and lubricated. Carrier bearing is good. Same thing with whatever the 4 well drive shaft is called.

9. I have to assume you are torquing to the wheel manufacturers specifications and order. I do mine twice, once halfway to the spec'd value, then again to final.

9. If none of the above works buy a 12 gauge with three boxes of slugs and start in on it. A good hunting accident is always an excuse for a new truck.

 

[Eighthtry]

By the way, I'm thinking with 10 plys you can probably run over a dime and know whether it is heads or tails.

 

[JumboJVT]

I've had balancing issue with Copper before. Had a set that just could not be balanced. Shop bought them back in exchange for other of the same model. The second set was fine. But I only deal with local people I know...one of the luxuries of living in a small town. No big chains around here.

 

[Mt.F150..]

Discount Tire called Wheel Pros today while I was in there and said that the hubcentric rings shouldn't be needed but they ordered them anyway. They told me that they did road force balance it but I also noticed that the front right has weights double stacked on it and looks like there is 30x .25oz weights on it which seems like a lot to me. I think I will swap that one with one of the rears that only has a few weights on it tomorrow and see what that does. Also, I just looked and the wheels on my truck now have a hub bore of 95.1 and I think these trucks are 87.1 so that may be my whole issue.

Im no tire guy but that's waaay to much weight to get that tire balanced

 

[Rinn69]

That amount of wheel weights is equal to "just hit it harder, it'll fit"......

 

[thekevin]

I have updates. I bought a set of stock 20's with 275/65/20 Michelin 10ply tires off of marketplace today and slapped them on. Truck drives smooth as silk again. I guess I will going back to Discount Tire to get my money back for the set of 18's I bought.

 

[Eighthtry]

You pay up for a name and it works. Always good.

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