Second battery has failed - Ford BMS is crap

[Samson16]

The car battery was dead and when I attached a battery charger the truck battery showed a SOC of 4%.

What car are you talking about?

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[Samson16]

Are you using translator software to communicate?

 

[texski]

Several valid points Bruce, but you focus on a few details glossing over the main point, Ford's prices are not commensurate with quality, amenities or service. 2024 base Cayenne is $86k, and I dare say a greater value than a F150. And when you look part for part, I am certain it cost more the manufacture a Cayenne than it does a F150. It is currently being reported that Ford looses $100k on each EV it sells. I would feel confident that there is a huge margin in our trucks to cover this loss. After all, that is why Ford dropped cars from it's offering, because trucks/suvs are the most profitable. But if we are talking most profitable manufacturer, it was recently announced ... Toyota

The battery issue is but 1 of many where Ford obviously fails and redirects the onus to the buyer. Ford deletes the paint on differentials. When it rusts, they change the definition of rust. Max Tow axle bolts, replace ONE if they break? WHERE IS THE RECALL!

Covid is over, supply chain, inflation still effects budgets, and yet there is no change in amenities, price or service. Recently, UBS purchased the major EV's from around the world, disassembled them, and evaluated them for quality, price and performance. China's BYD came out on top, scoring highest marks for quality AND performance. European makers consider this threat to be real. So while Ford can loose $100k per vehicle, BYD can manufacture them for 25% less and still be profitable. The only way Ford can continue at this rate is to depend on buyers who are comfortable with these deficiencies, as they will not need to innovate/improve. The way Ford is operating now is reminiscent of the auto bailouts pre-2008. Entitled execs felt they could operate with impunity and buyers would be forced to buy what they made. Lots are full now, and Ford overflow lots contain thousands of vehicles. It's time for Ford to overhaul the way they conduct business.

 

[Snakebitten]

OK. All fair points. 90% agree. Change is inevitable too, in my opinion.

But far from being unique to Ford.
If you have a Ford and have suffered their shortcomings, then Ford gets the negative bandwidth. And it makes sense. But the almost identical complaints are posted on forums of other brands that are probably guilty of the same practices.

Customer service and quality control has deteriorated across multiple brands. Even far beyond the automotive sector.

Having said all that, you can go to the same forums of the multiple brands and find evidence the same vehicles have been purchased by customers that haven't experienced the most painful of issues. I know that wouldn't make the fella with a lemon feel any better, but what is the satisfied customer supposed to do?

 

[nkyhunter]

22 ford tremor came with h6 in it and had lots of power issues , then upgraded to h8 agm from autozone no issues now

 

[Gord0]

The fix is out there, but he refuses to do it. Unless it's actually an issue of a parasitic draw, or just negligence of running electric power until the battery is drained. Yes, the battery is undersized. They saved some $ and caused some headaches for some owners. Auto manufacturers have put parts on vehicles that are slightly deficient forever and we as owners have been upgrading them. Put a bigger AGM starting battery in it and quit b*****n, or don't ?‍

 

[Hyins]

Just using FORScan to change TargetSOC to 120% and turn off SRC, all problems will be gone.

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...ge-how-to-power-accessories.13862/post-452723

 

[Calson]

A lot of blind faith in statements made by analysts who have not direct experience in manufacturing or electronics. The reality is that engineers make mistakes and it is the customer that usually bears the brunt of the costs as with the Ford Explore, Ford Pinto, Ford Crown Vic, and the Ford vehicles with the twin beam front suspension.

Ford puts a H8 battery in some of the F-150 trucks to handle the electrical loads but in many F-150 trucks being sold today it provides a H6 battery with much less capacity. For the prices charged by Ford it makes no sense not to provide a H8 battery in 100% of its F-150 trucks. The cost to Ford would be $50 per truck but the bean counters do the math and for 500,000 trucks that would reduce Fords profits by 25 million dollars. So we spend $70,000 on a truck with an undersized battery.

I have replaced my H6 battery at a cost of $412.52 and purchased a battery maintainer for $42.65 to hopefully have my truck start in the morning. I have not needed to do this for any other vehicle I have owned over the past 50 years.

Ford BMS is a band-aid for the under capacity battery being put into many of its F-150 trucks. The bottom line is that the only real fix is to buy and install a larger battery at the owner's expense.

 

[Snakebitten]

An H8 won't fit in my battery tray.
An H7 is the largest that fit and is what Ford equipped the truck with.

The OEM battery is approaching 800 days in the truck and with the recent "bandaid", as you put it, I'm hoping to get more life out of it yet.

I admit that the new charging strategy should have been deployed much earlier than it was, but it's here now and I'm convinced it will provide a much healthier 12V environment for the trucks.

 

[spiritrider1]

I'm about to park my PB in a Galveston parking lot for a week long cruise. I've contemplated purchasing a portable jump start battery pack, but maybe I'll just go out on a limb and trust the new strategy will not produce a 'dead' truck upon return... thoughts?

 

[Calson]

A H8 size battery will fit in the battery tray of my 2022 XLT truck. I bought an Optima H7 as the H8 batteries only have a 2% greater CCA and the Optima is like a marine battery that can handle deeper discharges without shortening the life of the battery. It actually weighs more at 60.5 lbs than most H8 batteries for sale.

H6 Dimensions 12.06 x 6.9 x 7.56
H7 Dimensions: 12.44 x 6.9 x 7.56
H8 Dimensions: 13.94 x 6.9 x 7.56

With the H7 in the battery tray there is an additional 1.5 inches for a longer battery to fit. It makes no sense at all when Ford is putting in H6, H7, and H8 batteries depending on the model of F-150 not to have standardized the size of the battery tray.

I keep jumper cables and a jump start battery device in my truck as I prefer not to have a battery that cannot start the engine when needed.

 

[Snakebitten]

I believe that the battery tray is the same across the F150.
Which will hold an H8.

But the Powerboost adds an auxiliary battery isolator and Ford mounted it on the battery tray in a way that limits the tray to an H7. Which is what Ford installed.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm about to park my PB in a Galveston parking lot for a week long cruise. I've contemplated purchasing a portable jump start battery pack, but maybe I'll just go out on a limb and trust the new strategy will not produce a 'dead' truck upon return... thoughts?

If everything works as designed, even if the battery SOC isn't high enough to stay at the desired minimum, the truck is supposed to go into deep-sleep mode to protect the battery from bleeding further.
But having said that, I would never discourage anyone from having a backup power source.

Have a nice cruze!

 

[texski]

A lot of blind faith in statements made by analysts who have not direct experience in manufacturing or electronics. The reality is that engineers make mistakes and it is the customer that usually bears the brunt of the costs as with the Ford Explore, Ford Pinto, Ford Crown Vic, and the Ford vehicles with the twin beam front suspension.

Ford puts a H8 battery in some of the F-150 trucks to handle the electrical loads but in many F-150 trucks being sold today it provides a H6 battery with much less capacity. For the prices charged by Ford it makes no sense not to provide a H8 battery in 100% of its F-150 trucks. The cost to Ford would be $50 per truck but the bean counters do the math and for 500,000 trucks that would reduce Fords profits by 25 million dollars. So we spend $70,000 on a truck with an undersized battery.

I have replaced my H6 battery at a cost of $412.52 and purchased a battery maintainer for $42.65 to hopefully have my truck start in the morning. I have not needed to do this for any other vehicle I have owned over the past 50 years.

Ford BMS is a band-aid for the under capacity battery being put into many of its F-150 trucks. The bottom line is that the only real fix is to buy and install a larger battery at the owner's expense.

Calson,
I think what you will see is 2 distinct groups, maybe 3 in the forum. 2021 model years, 2022 models and then 2023+. The 22's bears the worst of Ford with constraint deletes, industry leading number of recalls, abusive lack of communication, wilful deletions of features, and excessive price increases, all while racking in the most profitable season in the history of automobile manufacturing. And when there is a complaint about being gigged for a battery that won't last through the life of the warranty, some 21 owners like Gordo say Stop your Bitchin. I think many of us 22's have exceeded our limits with Ford and grace is not longer merited.

The culture at Ford is terrible. Watch Ford vs Ferrari and you will see the systemic dysfunction that endures today. I don't lay blame on the engineers for our battery failures, it is the bean counters, whose numbers are more valuable than those of engineering. H6 is a fiduciary function. It would not surprise me if the amount of energy used to transport and install these batteries were not a part of the calculated savings, not to mention the reduced cost of a H6 battery blanket vs H7/H8. And I will guarantee you that the weight savings of H6 was a part of CAFE credits. And then, Farley, et. al. made a calculated risk that those who will replace these batteries at their own cost will out way having to pay dealers a fixed cost to replace these using their express lane mechanics. It is a function of costs, not engineering impenitence.

The OTA battery management update did not help me. I'll take it in, burn another day, and see if the third new battery last longer than the first 2. At $80k, I should not have to shell out for a new battery, charger, maintainer, larger blanket and a portable jump starter. It's a problem Ford created, and Ford needs to fix it.

And Juan, I'd get a lithium jump box. You may not want to wait for a kindly person who just finished a cruise to wait around to give you a jump. While you may be willing to do the same for others ...
As I mentioned above, my update does not maintain accessories on start up after a couple of days. I'd be afraid that longer than that, I may not have the juice to start.

 

[Snakebitten]

I am a 2022.
Early Job2
No constraints other than Park Assist
Fully Loaded KingRanch Powerboost
X-plan (~$6500 below MSRP at the time)
Still on original battery

So your stereotype isn't exactly accurate.

I know I know.
I'm supposed to be an angry Ford hater to be a forum member.
And honestly, there are plenty of examples of truck owners here that if I were them I would be livid.

But a windshield wiper motor that never failed, and a crappy battery charging strategy for low use trucks, just isn't enough to ruin the ownership experience. Not for me anyways.

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