Pro Power Onboard with Transfer Switch to Power House

[JJSnell]

I got $10 bucks on @Hullguy ...
Love when pros jump in.

I see this often when talking servers, firewalls etc. 30+yrs of IT and some dude with a cartoon character in a video game with a special sword argues with me.

With all that said @bfallert you should have this professionally installed or at least looked at. If something were to happen and your insurance or fire inspector points back to this not being done correctly, you could lose EVERYthing with no chance of compensation.

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[HammaMan]

I'm w/ @Hullguy as well in regards to what code says.

I'm not with anyone saying that disconnecting the ground conductor on a circuit that can only be powered by a generator is dangerous when all of the generators that connect to said receptacle complete the ground path of the circuit's wiring. The ground and its role is easily one of the most misunderstood conductors. It's not a mystery as to why the incoming utility has no ground conductor supplied, at least to me anyway.

I've asked repeatedly for an 'unsafe' fault path diagram (or explain it if you can't draw basic circuit diagrams) that makes such a condition unsafe. Even if going the swiss cheese route of conditions that have to align to make it dangerous looks silly as applied to every other circuit, nothing is safe. "Because the government says so" isn't responding to the task, it's a copout. I'll continue to ask it in the hopes that one day I come across a 'master' that truly understands all variables involved, as it's still unanswered.

 

[Snakebitten]

My oldest brother (68) is an inspector and has built homes all his life. Including the one I raised all my children in and now a few of my grandchildren.

Residential electrical is often one of the battle grounds whether he is representing the buyer or the seller.
I've watched him many times use "code" to defend his position, as well as roll his eyes when someone else did the same.

Pretty sure the devil is in the details. ?

 

[Gros Ventre]

Don't forget the "green screw," usually in the upper right side of the panel. That is where the normal neutral-ground bonding occurs. When you hook up your PB to the house panel, you can remove that screw and there will be a single bonding inside the truck system. But: Do not forget to reinstall it on disconecting your truck...

 

[Gulfstream]

My oldest brother (68) is an inspector and has built homes all his life. Including the one I raised all my children in and now a few of my grandchildren.

Residential electrical is often one of the battle grounds whether he is representing the buyer or the seller.
I've watched him many times use "code" to defend his position, as well as roll his eyes when someone else did the same.

Pretty sure the devil is in the details. ?

Spoken like a true ambassador of civil, Socratic discourse. Well done!

 

[JJSnell]

My oldest brother (68) is an inspector and has built homes all his life. Including the one I raised all my children in and now a few of my grandchildren.

Residential electrical is often one of the battle grounds whether he is representing the buyer or the seller.
I've watched him many times use "code" to defend his position, as well as roll his eyes when someone else did the same.

Pretty sure the devil is in the details. ?

I agree, the term "code" is riddled with bureaucracy and red tape, but when it comes down to a possible investigation, you better have followed "code".
Regardless of how dumb or asinine it might be.

 

[Yves]

My oldest brother (68) is an inspector and has built homes all his life. Including the one I raised all my children in and now a few of my grandchildren.

Residential electrical is often one of the battle grounds whether he is representing the buyer or the seller.
I've watched him many times use "code" to defend his position, as well as roll his eyes when someone else did the same.

Pretty sure the devil is in the details. ?

It's like the debate about 87 or 93 fuel or how often should we change oil in our truck. We have some belief, right or wrong, that guides us in our choices. Then we can roll our eyes on some of the comments

 

[HammaMan]

It's like the debate about 87 or 93 fuel or how often should we change oil in our truck. We have some belief, right or wrong, that guides us in our choices. Then we can roll our eyes on some of the comments

I'd disagree a bit. There's a real simple question on the table, and no takers. Does the label on a plastic bag saying to not put it over your head make it dangerous, or does the fact it's an easy means of suffocation do it? If someone can only point to the verbiage and say that's what makes it dangerous, do they actually grasp the fundamentals of needing oxygen to breathe, or that a confined space can quickly become saturated with CO2.

There's more outdoor and kitchen tools with 2 prongs than there are 3 prong. There's 2 prong tools with built-in GFI breakers. There are things in the code that revert to the lowest common denominator like generator interconnects that require wiring to be such that someone may try to convert it to a circuit in the future vs a generator feed. Same goes for marking 2 conductor NM on 2 pole circuits. The most obvious for this case is AC/HVAC and water heaters. White non-grounded CCCs galore and rarely labeled per code. Is it dangerous life threatening, no. Why the labeling? Because there's a remote chance someone may try to make it a 120v circuit in the future by installing a 120v plug.

 

[Gulfstream]

I'd disagree a bit. There's a real simple question on the table, and no takers. Does the label on a plastic bag saying to not put it over your head make it dangerous, or does the fact it's an easy means of suffocation do it? If someone can only point to the verbiage and say that's what makes it dangerous, do they actually grasp the fundamentals of needing oxygen to breathe, or that a confined space can quickly become saturated with CO2.

There's more outdoor and kitchen tools with 2 prongs than there are 3 prong. There's 2 prong tools with built-in GFI breakers. There are things in the code that revert to the lowest common denominator like generator interconnects that require wiring to be such that someone may try to convert it to a circuit in the future vs a generator feed. Same goes for marking 2 conductor NM on 2 pole circuits. The most obvious for this case is AC/HVAC and water heaters. White non-grounded CCCs galore and rarely labeled per code. Is it dangerous life threatening, no. Why the labeling? Because there's a remote chance someone may try to make it a 120v circuit in the future by installing a 120v plug.

Well, you make a compelling argument about plastic bags and electrical abilities, but I've always said, "If you need a warning label to tell you not to put a plastic bag over your head, you're probably not qualified to perform electrical work either!" Might as well ask your toaster for electrical advice?️?

 

[Yves]

I'd disagree a bit. There's a real simple question on the table, and no takers. Does the label on a plastic bag saying to not put it over your head make it dangerous, or does the fact it's an easy means of suffocation do it? If someone can only point to the verbiage and say that's what makes it dangerous, do they actually grasp the fundamentals of needing oxygen to breathe, or that a confined space can quickly become saturated with CO2.

There's more outdoor and kitchen tools with 2 prongs than there are 3 prong. There's 2 prong tools with built-in GFI breakers. There are things in the code that revert to the lowest common denominator like generator interconnects that require wiring to be such that someone may try to convert it to a circuit in the future vs a generator feed. Same goes for marking 2 conductor NM on 2 pole circuits. The most obvious for this case is AC/HVAC and water heaters. White non-grounded CCCs galore and rarely labeled per code. Is it dangerous life threatening, no. Why the labeling? Because there's a remote chance someone may try to make it a 120v circuit in the future by installing a 120v plug.

I wish I could answer your question but as I said in other post I'm not an electrician. But I feel even if someone would come up with an example you would argue it anyway as it probably need specific situation and probably the odds are low but still exist. What I know is, they sell generator panels for bonded neutral, the code says the grounds should be connected, the electrician (master) in my wife family says it's the way it is to be connected, my son's panel and my panel are connected with a proper panel and done by an electrician and it works fine. If something was to happen to my place I would feel I've done everything in my power to avoid it.

 

[UGADawg96]

For all those who state they are comfortable with removing the ground wire or the green screw, etc., while they may feel they are competent enough to be detailed and do it right every time, would they put those same odds on their spouse or young kids or visiting family or friends to do the same if they weren't home, probably not. I can tow a 18 wheeler, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 16 year old with a fresh license doing it.

 

[HammaMan]

For all those who state they are comfortable with removing the ground wire or the green screw, etc., while they may feel they are competent enough to be detailed and do it right every time, would they put those same odds on their spouse or young kids or visiting family or friends to do the same if they weren't home, probably not. I can tow a 18 wheeler, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 16 year old with a fresh license doing it.

Seems to be confusion on this -- that circuit can have the ground floated entirely on bonded generators. At no point was I suggesting to install / remove it per use. A generator's electrons are trying to get to it. Not earth, not ground, to it.

 

[Mosey]

I just finished the initial install and testing of my transfer switch. I learned a lot by reading the various threads here. I went with a Reliance 3-pole manual switch. A pretty basic setup, but it works.

 

[Gros Ventre]

For all those who state they are comfortable with removing the ground wire or the green screw, etc., while they may feel they are competent enough to be detailed and do it right every time, would they put those same odds on their spouse or young kids or visiting family or friends to do the same if they weren't home, probably not. I can tow a 18 wheeler, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 16 year old with a fresh license doing it.

That's why I wrote out a detailed, step by step procedure for family...

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